Do You Want Universal Healthcare?

missjennmb · Jul 24, 2008

There should be affordable healthcare to all, though! And, people who do not purchase it will suffer their own consequences. However, it should be a law to provide medical coverage for children. Just like immunizations, parents hould be forced to provide health insurance for their children. I purchased CHIP for my children when they were younger, when I could not afford the COBRA dependent premiums. So, there should be affordable alternatives to all.

ah yes... lets force women who are making minimum wage to pay for another thing in order to keep their children safe and healthy. And for the record, immunizations are not required. There are many ways to opt out of having imunizations. I can't help but take serious offense at the idea of "parents being forced" to do this and that regarding their children. If its not child abuse, you should leave them alone. I gotta break it to you... I pay healthcare premiums and copays and deductibles and we are STILL unable to pay for office visits, even with a decent income. When I was making near minimum wage and as a single mom... if I had to pay for insurance out of the $220 a week that I made, I would not have been able to keep my son in daycare and my electric on - both of which were crucial to being able to continue to work and be a contributing member of society. Daycare was $85 p/wk so that was almost half my paycheck right there...and that was before the crazy gas prices (I think back then it was about $1.00 p/gallon) so sure, lets FORCE parents to pay for one more thing as a blanket statement. Who cares. They can afford it right? I mean, if they can't, they can always quit their jobs and go on welfare. Because thats where people end up when they cannot make ends meet anymore.

BradleyRN · Jul 24, 2008

I'm tired of paying for irresponsible people to use the ER as their free drug clinic. I'm also tired of paying for multiple baby deliveries to unemployed, unattached women who refuse to use free birth control after their 5th crack baby. I believe in helping out a fellow human, but I refuse to support someone who doesn't care for themselves, is able-bodied but refuses to work, and doesn't care that they're suckling on the taxpayers teat.

I can tell you that the patients you see there and the incredible level of irresponsibility and abuse you will see will amaze you, and make you wish you could just "not" see your hard-earned money go to pay for these people's expenses.

Based on your signature indicating some kind of spirituality to you, i can only say to posts like these:

Whatever you did for one of the least of my brothers, you did for me. Matthew 25:40

How many 5th crack babies have you paid for? Id rather see my tax dollars go to pay for anyones care rather than giving oil companies billions in tax cuts and earmarks worth millions to senator's personal friends and so on and so forth. There are many ways that our tax dollars are being completely wasted that far outweigh helping poor people have medical care. Maybe you would rather lock the doors and not let them in unless they have the cash? Do you think that the unemployment rate is based soley on "able bodied people that refuse to work"? Since it would be hard to distinguish one poor out of work person from another, maybe they should just go on back home and try to deliver those babies themselves. You say you are pro-life and yet are so irresponsible in your posts as not to see that regardless of what the mother has "failed" to accomplish in your judgemental eyes, the baby might have the right to at least some kind of medical intervention to guarantee it's safe delivery into this world. Deny that!!

Agrippa · Jul 24, 2008

Yes I do. We need to cut out the middle men (managed care) who's loyalty is to their shareholders NOT patients. Talk about conflict of interest. Pay for a potentially life saving procedure that costs $500,000 or deny coverage so that the company's quarterly profits will be that much higher and the shareholder stocks will go up a quarter percent. Hmm....sounds like the patient's interest is clearly the only consideration. :lol2:

Lets be civilized and finally get with the times with universal healthcare.

SteveNNP, MSN, NP · Jul 24, 2008

Based on your signature indicating some kind of spirituality to you, i can only say to posts like these:
Whatever you did for one of the least of my brothers, you did for me. Matthew 25:40
How many 5th crack babies have you paid for? Id rather see my tax dollars go to pay for anyones care rather than giving oil companies billions in tax cuts and earmarks worth millions to senator's personal friends and so on and so forth. There are many ways that our tax dollars are being completely wasted that far outweigh helping poor people have medical care. Maybe you would rather lock the doors and not let them in unless they have the cash? Do you think that the unemployment rate is based soley on "able bodied people that refuse to work"? Since it would be hard to distinguish one poor out of work person from another, maybe they should just go on back home and try to deliver those babies themselves. You say you are pro-life and yet are so irresponsible in your posts as not to see that regardless of what the mother has "failed" to accomplish in your judgemental eyes, the baby might have the right to at least some kind of medical intervention to guarantee it's safe delivery into this world. Deny that!!

This has to be the third or fourth post in which someone has quoted a blurb from one of my long posts and followed it with a statement like: "So that means you MUST believe that __________" - Don't infer anything I don't write.

All personal attack statements aside, I seem to be giving the same people the wrong impression.

-Nowhere in that passage from Matthew does it say anything about forcing the levy of taxes to fund a national healthcare system. I believe that passage is talking about me personally ministering to those who need help, not funding socialized medicine.

-You're inferring that by stating that I'm tired of my taxes going to pay for repeated pregnancies of drug-addicted mothers, I am contradicting my pro-life beliefs. I'm not. I am not suggesting she be denied care, I just said I'm tired of it. Tired of a broken system that distributes the financial burden of these cases over the middle class. Can't we each have our own opinions?

- I work NICU. Nearly every day we deal with children of drug-addicted mothers, often on their 4th or 5th child. And DSS comes and puts this one into foster care with the rest. I had a patient once whose mother was an addict, got pregnant, delivered an extremely premature infant who spent nearly six months in our unit.. He went into state custody upon discharge, but not before we found out his mother was pregnant again. It took us weeks to guide him through withdrawal. I would never, ever say that he did not deserve the >$1 million worth of care he received at taxpayers expense, because he deserved every chance.

- You are missing the point of my posts, as have a few others, and I've had to re-explain myself to them too... I am in NO WAY against providing necessary basic healthcare to those that need it. Middle class, poor, etc... I AM against levying more taxes and giving the government more control than it already has.

-In an ideal world, there would be no system abuse, no money-grubbing insurance companies or millionaire physicians. Unfortunately, in the state of disrepair our healthcare system is currently in, it will take time to figure out what will work best for our nation. I liked another poster's idea of forming a committee made up of healthcare workers in the trenches to oversee and overhaul our healthcare system.

But come on, guys, can't we discuss this issue without hurling personal attacks? In a polarizing issue such as this, neither side is ever completely right. Can't we just agree to disagree, rather than bashing others' views?

missjennmb · Jul 25, 2008

- I work NICU. Nearly every day we deal with children of drug-addicted mothers, often on their 4th or 5th child. And DSS comes and puts this one into foster care with the rest. I had a patient once whose mother was an addict, got pregnant, delivered an extremely premature infant who spent nearly six months in our unit.. He went into state custody upon discharge, but not before we found out his mother was pregnant again. It took us weeks to guide him through withdrawal. I would never, ever say that he did not deserve the >$1 million worth of care he received at taxpayers expense, because he deserved every chance.

I wont flame you. I just think our healthcare system is severely broken, but I am all for a good debate.

It must be very hard to work around those conditions day in and day out Steve. I did an internship with DSS when I was younger, and it was very very tough on me to see what those mothers put their children through. It turned me away from my youth's desire to be a Social Worker actually, because I didn't think I could stand it for the rest of my life (and for very low wages to boot) I often weigh back and forth as to whether I want to go into NICU/peds nursing because that is where my heart calls me, or stay as far away from it as I can, because I know my heart will get broken by what I witness.

Agrippa · Jul 25, 2008

Based on your signature indicating some kind of spirituality to you, i can only say to posts like these:
Whatever you did for one of the least of my brothers, you did for me. Matthew 25:40
How many 5th crack babies have you paid for? Id rather see my tax dollars go to pay for anyones care rather than giving oil companies billions in tax cuts and earmarks worth millions to senator's personal friends and so on and so forth. There are many ways that our tax dollars are being completely wasted that far outweigh helping poor people have medical care. Maybe you would rather lock the doors and not let them in unless they have the cash? Do you think that the unemployment rate is based soley on "able bodied people that refuse to work"? Since it would be hard to distinguish one poor out of work person from another, maybe they should just go on back home and try to deliver those babies themselves. You say you are pro-life and yet are so irresponsible in your posts as not to see that regardless of what the mother has "failed" to accomplish in your judgemental eyes, the baby might have the right to at least some kind of medical intervention to guarantee it's safe delivery into this world. Deny that!!

Why punish the kids though? Why punish them for not winning the genetic lottery? Its not their fault they were born to crack head moms. I think the right, just, and moral thing for any great society to do would be give those kids a chance to become productive citizens DESPITE the cards they were dealt. Its not their fault they weren't born into a loving household with decent parents.

Now if this means that there will be some "crack head" mothers free loading off our "system" then so be it. Now I'm all for reforming our system so that we can monitor how money gets spent so we become more efficient. But it will never be 100% free of those people who take advantage of our system. But I would rather have a some free riders if that means that we can help at least one innocent person - someone who is truly in a bad situation through no fault of their own, who just needs to have some decent health care. Lets remember the compassion that I know many of us have in our hearts.

BradleyRN · Jul 25, 2008

Why punish the kids though? Why punish them for not winning the genetic lottery? Its not their fault they were born to crack head moms. I think the right, just, and moral thing for any great society to do would be give those kids a chance to become productive citizens DESPITE the cards they were dealt. Its not their fault they weren't born into a loving household with decent parents.

Agrippa,

That was exactly my sentiment. We can say all day that we shouldnt have to help those that wont help themselves or dont contribute enough to society, but the only alternative to doing so is to let them suffer. And that net of suffering would catch a lot of innocent people in it as well. I have worked with many poor families over the years while in home health. One thing i learned is that some of them are basically born into being so poor, that then even in their 20's, they dont realize that there is another way. Our culture transcended natural selection long ago, and we will have to continue to pay, as weakness will in many cases propagate weakness. Even so, we still do a bad job at protecting our feeble and elderly from a system that likes to make huge profits by providing substandard care. In it's wake, you will find situations that could be avoided. If you would like an example, just visit your local nursing home or look at the 20,000 people still living in contaminated FEMA trailers. The only way to do things better is to change the way we do things. :nuke:

Mimmm · Jul 25, 2008

I noticed alot of posts stating that there is fraud and misuse, and that we will be paying for people who are irresponsible. We already pay for these people. The government(medicare/medicaid) and the hospital pay the bill. It seems to me we have safety nets for the less fortunate. These people get admitted all the time and get great medical care. We don't treat these patients poorly saying sorry take you and your crack baby home, you don't have insurance, we can not medically treat you. Just a couple of seeks ago we put a pacemaker in a homelss person. Yet I see some Canadians crossing the border when having an active MI (no offense to my fellow Canadians, glad to be neighbors with you.) Like I said before, we value human life in this country, but it is not a right. If we have universal healthcare, the quality of care for everyone will decline, including the less fortunate. The government does a poor job managing money. Congress does not pay income tax, but has no problem voting to increase our taxes. The government can not promise social security to us at age 65, now we may have to wait until 70. At least the private sector must take interest in the product they deliver or go out of business. Or if they refuse to pay for a medical bill, must stand up to the legal system. The government does not take interest unless it's some political issue that year. Do we really want to count on and trust big government to take care of us?? No thank you. If we want government invovled at all, it should be to create policy that decreases fraud and unfairness.

tanthalas · Jul 25, 2008

Yet I see some Canadians crossing the border when having an active MI

lol, that's not the health care system - that's either a really bad hospital serving that area or not-so-brilliant Canadians.

Mmmm, you bring up some good points about the US government. The Canadian government is far from virtuous (and I mean far), but perhaps its values are different from that of Americans.

I read on this forum all the time about lawsuits, suing, etc in America. It exists in Canada too but definitely not to the same magnitude. I guess, as I said about about the Canadian vs American values system, Canadians are less inclined to use a bureaucratic approach.

Agrippa · Jul 25, 2008

Do we really want to count on and trust big government to take care of us?? No thank you. If we want government invovled at all, it should be to create policy that decreases fraud and unfairness.

Do you really want the CEO and the Board of Directors of various health insurance companies deciding between taking care of you and their shareholders?

Look at what happens when "big business" runs amuck. Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling, Michael Milken, Bear Sterns, Worldcom, etc etc... i can go on. You lambast "big government" without taking a critical look at what big business has done. Don't even get me started in the mortgage/credit crisis we have now. Talk about letting business run amuck...

RN1982 · Jul 25, 2008

I'm not trying to sound insensitive but if universial healthcare was to be put into place, what would happen to all the vent-dependant brain dead patients? Just curious because their care alone is millions and millions of dollars. Is the government going to make it easier for the docs to have the authority to remove patients from vents when their quality of life is futile?

allnurses Guide · Jul 25, 2008

Universal Healthcare - Absolutely not!!! I did a speech on this topic back in the early 90s. People would have to wait forever to have surgery, or whatever. I have a friend that lives in Canada, and she likes it. However, she explained all of the cons, and I would not like it want it.
However, ability for Americans to afford Healthcare coverage - YES! Everyone should have the ability to afford healthcare!
There are people that can afford healthcare, but it is not a priority with them. They simply don't wish to part with their money to pay the premiums. They would rather spend this money on alcohol and/or drugs. And, there will come a time in their life they will not be able to afford all of the tests, or cost of transpant, and die! This happened to my brother who died at age of 51 of advanced liver disease. He was a brilliant man and an attorney. He was extremely booksmart. He scored the highest on the bar exam in state of CA.out of all those who took the bar at same time. However, health insurance was never a priority to him. He was strictly a "cash" man. But, all of those years of drinking and drug abuse caught up with him. He did not have enough cash for all of the care that would possibly save him. So, death was his choice. We all miss him terribly! He was functional alcoholic with a very big heart!
Now, let me discuss my ex - He had been trying to get disability for yrs. Initially, I believe that he was just lazy. He had a shoulder injury(which happend when he fell off balcony while drunk). However, this past year he becam a "real" candidate for disability. Hep. C, advanced cirrhosis, and liver cancer. He got his disability ater his cancer diagnosis. His only hope is a transplant. Not, the best prognosis, but he has one hell of a chance, if he finds compatable liver. Medicaid, helped him get the necessary care.
Am I bitter, that my brother was not helped more because he did not hve insurance. NO!! As much as I loved him and miss him, I feel that it was his choice not to purchase health insurance. And, he was able to afford it when he was relatively healthy.
There should be affordable healthcare to all, though! And, people who do not purchase it will suffer their own consequences. However, it should be a law to provide medical coverage for children. Just like immunizations, parents hould be forced to provide health insurance for their children. I purchased CHIP for my children when they were younger, when I could not afford the COBRA dependent premiums. So, there should be affordable alternatives to all.

With single payer healthcare we all pay.

No young healthy workers gambling by not paying so as to have more spending money.

Most may not need much care but will have it if needed.

And the risk pool will be everybody.

Now Medicare pays for the old and disabled who need the most healthcare.