This thread might draw ire, but I feel that it has to be said.
In my carefully considered opinion, one of the biggest things that holds nursing back as a profession is what I view as a high school dropout mentality. Those who have this mentality act as if being an RN gives you the right to bully others. It takes its shape in unprofessional behavior of all kinds, including publicly "calling out" other nurses on the floor, yelling at other nurses in front of patients, lecturing new people about their many years of experience on the floor, and constantly complaining about the facility, the people in it, and gossiping and backstabbing people. You all know people who fit this description to a T at work.
Here is what I discovered through my dealings with these types. Certain groups tend to have high numbers of individuals with this mentality, and they include nurses who were adult learners, community college students, former LPNs, former CNAs, and people who actually did drop out of high school in their teens. Meanwhile, BSN students and second degree nursing students tend to not have this high school dropout mentality. Is that because BSN and second degree students are just less likely to actually have dropped out of high school than the groups I listed above? Maybe.
"Getting my RN" and becoming a floor nurse is seen as the biggest accomplishment in the world by these groups. Becoming an RN is a worthy accomplishment to be sure, but acting like it's the highest honor in the world is rather pretentious. I am not bashing associate degree nurses. I myself graduated with an associate degree in nursing and am pursuing a BSN while working.
Before anyone says it, I realize that most people within these groups are normal, everyday people trying to make a living. But isn't that part of what holds nursing back? I want nursing to attract the best and the brightest. I want people who see it as more than a paycheck. I want people who are interested in professional advancement, education, and research, not people who are content with being a ratty, shat-on-her-scrubs floor nurse in a nursing home for twenty years in order to support three adult children who are on welfare. The kind of nurse who long ago forgot if your appendix is on your left or right side of your body. The kind who doesn't care about the science.
Does anyone want to weigh in? Use this thread to discuss your thoughts and feelings about the high school dropout mentality in nursing. Do you believe it exists? Or do you believe it is imagined? Use this thread to discuss ways in which we can raise the standards of the everyday nurse and stop low class, ignorant behavior.
"However, generalizing an entire category of people based on prior negative experiences that happen more than is common flies against what nursing philosophy. That is discrimination."
Do these words sound familiar to you? They should..they're yours.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
. I want people who are interested in professional advancement, education, and research, not people who are content with being a ratty, shat-on-her-scrubs floor nurse in a nursing home for twenty years in order to support three adult children who are on welfare. The kind of nurse who long ago forgot if your appendix is on your left or right side of your body. The kind who doesn't care about the science.
That's just plain mean. Not a sign of a superior being. There are about 20 logical inconsistencies in your post. Many have been mentioned by previous posters. But you acheived your goal of drawing ire as well as drawing some humorous input from others who have even less familiarity with the entire field than you do.
At least you seem to take criticism pretty well. Either that or you haven't read all the replies.
I think the OP stated the position rather inelegantly, but I do see the point s/he is trying to make. I agree to an extent, though I see no connection to bullying (which is the most overused word and misunderstood concept on this site). Nursing has attracted many of the "lowest common denominator" and it has hurt the profession. Where I differ with the OP is that I don't believe this is a socioeconomic designation, but rather an intellectual one. The academic standards are simply too low. If medical students are coming from the top 10% of their class, I'd like to see nursing from the top 11%. ;-)
I think nursing should model itself more like medical education. I believe entry level to nursing education should be post baccalaureate, just like medical school. Perhaps 2-3 years long, with a year of med-surg residency and then an additional year in a specialty area if desired afterward would be most ideal. In other words, adapt the old diploma program for college graduates, lol. I think this would effectively weed out a lot of the undesirable traits we see among some of our peers, elevate our standing among our colleagues and polish our public image.
It won't happen of course, but it is my ideal scenario.
"However, generalizing an entire category of people based on prior negative experiences that happen more than is common flies against what nursing philosophy. That is discrimination."
Do these words sound familiar to you? They should..they're yours.
I just read that thread and was going to post exactly that! You took the words right out of my mouth.
I'm beginning to wonder why the OP even wants to be a nurse if he/she thinks so poorly of nursing.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
The term I thought was apt. One of the characteristics that unites people with this mentality is that they have very low ambition. They are content working as a floor nurse, because it lets them feel above LPNs and CNAs, which is all that is important to them. Becoming an RN is about status to them.
And I don't agree that low class ignorant behavior is as pervasive in other professions. When was the last time you saw two pharmacists shouting at each other in the hallway, writing each other up, or trying to humiliate one another in other ways? The same with physical therapists, speech therapists, social workers, and so forth. I just don't see it happening where I work. In nursing, I see it all the time.
It is my belief that the raw stock of people that nursing draws from is cut from a different cloth than these other professions, and unfortunately that cloth is poor. And even more unfortunately, I believe that this hurts our profession and holds nurses back from attaining the respect that we deserve from other professionals and our employers.
Of course, you are nothing like the lowly people you described. You're above all that. (In case you missed it, this was sarcasm.)
It's people like you who are the real problem in nursing. Arrogance and ignorance don't mix well at all. It's sheer stupidity to suggest that someone who works as a floor nurse for the majority of his/her career is lacking in ambition. For crying out loud, since when was it a bad thing to have mature, experienced nurses at the bedside.
Your post betrays your lack of experience in the profession and a level of intolerance that we don't need.
What I don't understand is this....aren't you studying to be a nurse?? If so, why would you categorize yourself so negatively? Or, perhaps you're a med student.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Nursing was intentionally casting a wide net for years. It became the "go to" profession for life coaches all over the place. Now I'm not sure when the shortage actually ended. Maybe Peter Buerhaus can do one of his unbiased studies (yes that is sarcasm) to find out.
Nobody has even talked about the impact of someone's socioeconomic background on their actual abilities as a nurse - taking care of patients. Just that people who work with them think they're dumb. The 2010 Institute of Medicine report on the future of nursing makes a point of saying that recruiting nurses from all walks of life is a key goal. And those are the people at the highest echelons of the ivory tower. They may (not saying they do) regard a BSN as a laudable first step in the career track.
That would be the career track the IOM report also emphasizes. Going from a CNA or LPN to an RN is just as much a part of that as going from an associates to a BSN.
the term i thought was apt. one of the characteristics that unites people with this mentality is that they have very low ambition. they are content working as a floor nurse, because it lets them feel above lpns and cnas, which is all that is important to them. becoming an rn is about status to them.
op do you actually work as a nurse? you can't get your work done without other staff.
it is my belief that the raw stock of people that nursing draws from is cut from a different cloth than these other professions, and unfortunately that cloth is poor. and even more unfortunately, i believe that this hurts our profession and holds nurses back from attaining the respect that we deserve from other professionals and our employers.
you do not seem to have a lot of respect for others. i do not understand where you get your data for your generalized statements from. my co-workers do not fit your profile, and i do not either.
The whole premise of this thread is absurd. OP is complaining about people who're rude, obnoxious, and unpleasant and attempting to correlate this with educational background. That type of behavior seems to be even more common with greater education. Look at many of the physicians and other highly educated people we deal with daily. Some do jack to stay abreast of current practice. Some cannot even speak English fluently--and no, I don't mean they just have thick accents.
The "bullying" and lack of desire to advance one's knowledge and skills are two distinctly different issues, and neither seem to have much to do with one's educational background. Many of the so-called "bullies" are indeed very intelligent, knowledgeable, competent nurses who're just lacking in ability to interact well with others. Some are actually decent folks despite their flaws if you get to know them. Some of my closest friends at work are known to be occasional bullies.
There is certainly an undercurrent of willful ignorance in nursing, but it is foolish to attempt to write that off as due to a person's upbringing or early education. I've seen it just as much in someone who earned a BSN at 22 and has worked for decades, becoming bitterly burned out. Frankly, it seems that the higher you go in nursing education the greater the disconnect between science (or alternatively, reality) and nursing, which is most unfortunate. There needs to be a much larger focus on science in nursing education, particularly at the graduate level.
Just as importantly, however, nurses must master the essential skills and knowledge of the areas they work in. So you can explain to me all of the factors that influence blood pressure such as how the renin angiotensin system works. Fabulous. If you're too slow hanging that nitro drip and titrating it up this hypertensive post-op AAA repair patient's graft is going to blow. Or, if you're a hospice RN, you better be able to advocate effectively for the patient's pain management to the primary caregiver who is reluctant to adequately treat the patient's pain.
Honestly, nursing is a broad profession and there is room for a wide range of folks. Do you honestly think that a hardcore pathophysiology geek interested in research is going to want to work in LTC? I doubt it. Does that mean that LTC only has ignorant nurses that are incapable of meeting residents' needs? Nope. It's a different job.
I am not a high school dropout, I'm a JUNIOR high school dropout. Maybe that's why I'm considered kind, knowledgeable, and a hard charger. Maybe that is why I'm driven to spend hours every week studying content related to my specialty. Thank God that briefly being an LPN didn't take away my drive to be the best nurse I can be or turn me into a total jerk!
TL;DR version
OP is incorrect in lumping lack of motivation and bullying together, and in then attempting to correlate them to educational or socio-economic background. Nursing education needs a greater focus on both the scientific foundation underpinning our work and on the actual skills necessary to do that work.
OP, you only have an associates degree? What did you do, drop out of high school to do drugs or something? Anybody who wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth and a country-club membership is clearly going to be a sub-par nurse, and there really should be a test for that before nursing school (ability to hose back ride, operate a sailboat, and play tennis perhaps?) You should just get out of the profession now, you dirty prole, and leave it for those of us with the right logos on our polo shirts.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I honestly don't think it's from SDN. I've belonged there for ten years and it just doesn't read like one of their trolls. IDK, I could be wrong. To me, it sounds like the ravings of an inexperienced horse with a giant bug up his butt.
LOL...that should have read "inexperienced nurse with a giant bug up his butt."
FlyingScot, RN
2,016 Posts
"However, generalizing an entire category of people based on prior negative experiences that happen more than is common flies against what nursing philosophy. That is discrimination."
Do these words sound familiar to you? They should..they're yours.