Do you think that a "high school dropout" mentality exists in the field of nursing?

[WillRegNurse]

This thread might draw ire, but I feel that it has to be said.

In my carefully considered opinion, one of the biggest things that holds nursing back as a profession is what I view as a high school dropout mentality. Those who have this mentality act as if being an RN gives you the right to bully others. It takes its shape in unprofessional behavior of all kinds, including publicly "calling out" other nurses on the floor, yelling at other nurses in front of patients, lecturing new people about their many years of experience on the floor, and constantly complaining about the facility, the people in it, and gossiping and backstabbing people. You all know people who fit this description to a T at work.

Here is what I discovered through my dealings with these types. Certain groups tend to have high numbers of individuals with this mentality, and they include nurses who were adult learners, community college students, former LPNs, former CNAs, and people who actually did drop out of high school in their teens. Meanwhile, BSN students and second degree nursing students tend to not have this high school dropout mentality. Is that because BSN and second degree students are just less likely to actually have dropped out of high school than the groups I listed above? Maybe.

"Getting my RN" and becoming a floor nurse is seen as the biggest accomplishment in the world by these groups. Becoming an RN is a worthy accomplishment to be sure, but acting like it's the highest honor in the world is rather pretentious. I am not bashing associate degree nurses. I myself graduated with an associate degree in nursing and am pursuing a BSN while working.

Before anyone says it, I realize that most people within these groups are normal, everyday people trying to make a living. But isn't that part of what holds nursing back? I want nursing to attract the best and the brightest. I want people who see it as more than a paycheck. I want people who are interested in professional advancement, education, and research, not people who are content with being a ratty, shat-on-her-scrubs floor nurse in a nursing home for twenty years in order to support three adult children who are on welfare. The kind of nurse who long ago forgot if your appendix is on your left or right side of your body. The kind who doesn't care about the science.

Does anyone want to weigh in? Use this thread to discuss your thoughts and feelings about the high school dropout mentality in nursing. Do you believe it exists? Or do you believe it is imagined? Use this thread to discuss ways in which we can raise the standards of the everyday nurse and stop low class, ignorant behavior.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

Meanwhile, BSN students and second degree nursing students tend to not have this high school dropout mentality. Is that because BSN and second degree students are just less likely to actually have dropped out of high school than the groups I listed above? Maybe.

Many physicians do the unprofessional things that would fit in rather nicely under your so-called 'high school dropout mentality' (bullying others, publicly calling out nurses, yelling at staff in front of patients, lecturing people about how many years they've been a doctor, constantly complaining about the facility, screaming at nurses on the other end of the phone, throwing charts at people, crude bedside manner, temper tantrums, etc.). However, virtually no physician has ever dropped out of high school, and they all have many years of education.

My point is that even people from the well-educated, professional upper middle class are capable of acting like ignorant hacks. Personality plays a more important role than whether someone dropped out of high school.

[thebusynurse]

in my carefully considered opinion, one of the biggest things that holds nursing back as a profession is what i view as a high school dropout mentality.

i really don't understand your particular definition of "high school dropout mentality."

i was a high school dropout (dropped out in grade 10), and i don't feel that i ever possessed the characteristics you mentioned: the bullying, or the sense of entitlement, or the "low class, ignorant behavior," etc. if anything, the mentality that i had was one of complete failure. i saw myself as stupid, but i did not act poorly because of it. nor do i act differently now that i am a nurse.

a high school drop out is simply someone who made a mistake in quitting school (for whatever reason). that does not make them stupid, and that does not make them bullies, or gossipers, backstabbers, or any other negative type of person.

is that because bsn and second degree students are just less likely to actually have dropped out of high school than the groups i listed above? maybe.

doubtful.

"getting my rn" and becoming a floor nurse is seen as the biggest accomplishment in the world by these groups.

i know that it was my biggest accomplishment! i had to overcome many obstacles to do it, but finally being able to walk across that stage during my convocation (all 2 minutes of it!) was the best feeling in the world - followed only by passing my national exam and becoming an rn. seeing those 2 letters that *i* was now allowed to put after my name, and knowing that i had earned that right, nothing tops it! perhaps you do not fully appreciate the honour it is to be a nurse, or just how hard it is to become one.

before anyone says it, i realize that most people within these groups are normal, everyday people trying to make a living. but isn't that part of what holds nursing back? i want nursing to attract the best and the brightest.

you honestly don't think that someone who tackles nursing school and becomes an rn with less than a high school education is not amongst the brightest? think again!

use this thread to discuss ways in which we can raise the standards of the everyday nurse and stop low class, ignorant behavior.

we can raise the standards of nursing by learning tolerance of others, by supporting each other, and by not being ignorant and propagating stereotypes.

good luck in obtaining your bsn. having just accomplished that feat in 2010, i fully understand the hard work that goes into it. all the best!

[WillRegNurse]

A high school drop out is simply someone who made a mistake in quitting school (for whatever reason). That does not make them stupid, and that does not make them bullies, or gossipers, backstabbers, or any other negative type of person.

There's often a little more to it than that, such as their reasons for quitting school. Writing off "whatever reason" as something unrelated to the identity of a high school dropout is flawed.High school dropouts are often marred by behavioral issues, drug use, lack of work ethic, low socioeconomic background, abusive homelives, lack of interest in education, lack of motivation. High school dropouts exhibit these characteristics way more than high school graduates, and WAY WAY more than high school graduates who go on to obtain a bachelors degree. High school dropout mentality encompasses the attitudes that lead to the behavior I described above. Do you want that in nursing? Even if someone reforms by stopping the bad behavior, the underlying attitudes are still there, veiled underneath the mask of a professional title.

I honestly believe that that is why so many low class people who become nurses end up like such jerks. They come from nothing and are then exposed to "professional status" without having the manners and tact that goes along with it. And then they become "drunk" on their new title and perceived authority.

You honestly don't think that someone who tackles nursing school and becomes an RN with less than a high school education is not amongst the brightest? Think again!

No, I don't consider such a person anywhere near the brightest. I consider Yale school of nursing graduates among the brightest.

Perhaps you do not fully appreciate the honour it is to be a nurse, or just how hard it is to become one.

Or, I just don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

[TakeTwoAspirin, MSN, RN, APRN]

I've got my popcorn and super-sized soda..... carry on!

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

While I would agree that bullying exists in nursing, it is there in every other profession too. As far as your "high school dropout" analogy....I disagree. I was a high school dropout in my teens. I later returned to school, graduated, and went on to travel and earn two degrees, one of which is a BSN. I treat my coworkers with respect. The bullies....I've met very few actually. The ones I have encountered, I call them on it.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

I just don't make a mountain out of a molehill. It isn't like we graduated from medical school here.

You're very correct. It's not as if we (nurses) have conquered the academic rigors and pure hell that is known as medical school.

However, nurses still have attained more education than the average person in society. In the US, only 25 percent of all adults 25 years of age or older have earned a degree. The vast majority of adults in this country (75 percent) have either dropped out of high school, earned a GED, graduated from high school, attended a trade school, or left college before earning a degree.

Although we didn't graduate from medical school, we still have achieved an educational outcome that the majority of society would not be able to pull off.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

OP you are extremely judgmental. People are who they are for various reasons. It isn't your place to judge the motivations of others or generalize in such a negative way. I certainly hope you treat your patients with more respect.

[tokmom, BSN, RN]

I have worked in this field for a number of years. Heck, since I was 18 and a CNA. I have seen nasty behavior from every ethnicity and educational background, from CNA to MD.

When I worked at one large facility, the vast majority of RN's were working toward their MSN's. OMG, the floor was toxic with hatred.

So no. I have to disagree.

[FLmomof5]

I don't see the OP as judgmental, she is trying to provide an analysis based on what statistic she may have experienced.

The statement the OP made about those who typically dropout is accurate, a sad but true scenario. Many of these folks are either the bullies or the bullied.

The one thing that is true is the manner in which to handle bullies....without an audience, their diatribes have no power. I once was being verbally assaulted by a male co-worker. I let him rant. When he took a breath, I said,"Are you done?" Stunned, he said, "Yes." I then said,"I hope you feel like a real man now." and walked away. This was in front of a bunch of other males. It never happened again.

I believe that those who dropped out as bullies and went out to become RNs would most likely bully at work. I think those who were bullied and became RNs would be more compassionate because they know how it feels.

Regarding the MDs who bully....I would believe that they felt powerless as teens and now wield that power with a nasty mouth because they feel that they are now better than others.

Bullies come in all shapes and sizes. It is not just the ones who took the hard road in life.

[Lynx25, LPN]

I see terrible nurses from all schools, laziness at all degrees- and I don't think it has to do with level of education. You can go to the most expensive, overblown school you want, but you can't *fix* a terrible personality.

I don't feel like going to cheaper schools makes me an idiot- I just feel it's much cheaper.

I will, however, agree with you about the idea that nurses are just brilliant angels of mercy flapping around is ridiculous. It's just a job, people.

[Boxer Mama]

Here is what I discovered through my dealings with these types. Certain groups tend to have high numbers of individuals with this mentality, and they include nurses who were adult learners, community college students, former LPNs, former CNAs, and people who actually did drop out of high school in their teens. Meanwhile, BSN students and second degree nursing students tend to not have this high school dropout mentality. Is that because BSN and second degree students are just less likely to actually have dropped out of high school than the groups I listed above? Maybe.

Before anyone says it, I realize that most people within these groups are normal, everyday people trying to make a living. But isn't that part of what holds nursing back? I want nursing to attract the best and the brightest.

I am an adult going back to school at a local community college that is considered to have a wonderful nursing program and is also known for having classes that expect a lot from their students with a high difficulty level. I do plan on taking an ADN-to-BSN program after I receive my RN. I have never had a drop-out high school mentality and have always graduated with honors (in high school and other post high school education). I am choosing to go to the community college so that my family is not strapped with a 70K debt when I finish school. I do consider myself an "everyday" person, but I can tell you that I am one of the "brightest" and will make an excellent nurse and also a wonderful co-worker as well. I have worked with physicians who act more like a bully than a normal person could ever dream of. This might be one of those cases where a book cannot be judged by the cover.