Do you think patients should have the right to use medical marijuana?

S.N. Visit, BSN, RN · Jul 14, 2006

"We could do away with the 'drug' war while keeping the stigma intact."
Personally, and the last twelve pages of comments and the results of the poll will mostly back me up - very few people seem to relate the use of marijuana to any kind of "stigma" at all.
And while I personally don't use it, I don't think it should have one, no more than having a couple drinks, anyway. And I think except for the brief and disastrous prohibition, the last people in this country who got bent out of shape over the demon alcohol were the Puritans... and some Southern Baptists I know - and most of them just won't ADMIT that they drink.
Rx for everyone who thinks mj is some kind of evil weed - two bong hits prn for narrow mind and tight sphincter.

:bow: I agree 100%

suzy253, RN · Jul 14, 2006

Legalization is long overdue!!!

suzy253, RN · Jul 14, 2006

sorry...dble post

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 15, 2006

"We could do away with the 'drug' war while keeping the stigma intact."
Personally, and the last twelve pages of comments and the results of the poll will mostly back me up - very few people seem to relate the use of marijuana to any kind of "stigma" at all.
And while I personally don't use it, I don't think it should have one, no more than having a couple drinks, anyway. And I think except for the brief and disastrous prohibition, the last people in this country who got bent out of shape over the demon alcohol were the Puritans... and some Southern Baptists I know - and most of them just won't ADMIT that they drink.
Rx for everyone who thinks mj is some kind of evil weed - two bong hits prn for narrow mind and tight sphincter.

Already did the bong hits, more than twice.

Then, I grew up.

12 pages may attest to people's OPINIONS, but it certainly makes no statement about intact stigmas.

After all, how many of the nurses commenting here do you think currently actually use pot?

Not many that want to keep their licenses over the long haul.

Recreational drug use is NOT merely a personal liberty being over-regulated by the gov't. More than 50% of all car accidents involve recreational drugs. The costs in thefts and crime and ruined lives is abundantly clear.

And, I can test to see that you are under the influence of alcohol at work. Tell me, how do you test to see if you are actively under the influence of pot?

If MJ IS ever legalized, be sure that your BON will declare that MJ use is cause, legal or no, for revocation of licensure. And, be confident that will survive Court challenges. The BONs don't exist to secure YOUR rights, but the rights of those that you hold life and death in your daily hands.

~faith,

Timothy.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Jul 15, 2006

"We could do away with the 'drug' war while keeping the stigma intact."
Personally, and the last twelve pages of comments and the results of the poll will mostly back me up - very few people seem to relate the use of marijuana to any kind of "stigma" at all.
And while I personally don't use it, I don't think it should have one, no more than having a couple drinks, anyway. And I think except for the brief and disastrous prohibition, the last people in this country who got bent out of shape over the demon alcohol were the Puritans... and some Southern Baptists I know - and most of them just won't ADMIT that they drink.
Rx for everyone who thinks mj is some kind of evil weed - two bong hits prn for narrow mind and tight sphincter.

There is a difference between accepting the use of medical MJ and eliminating a "stigma".

Morphine, ativan, dilaudid all still have a "stigma" to them. I have plenty of democrat/republican, liberal/conservative, rich/poor, atheist/agnostic/religious, intelligent/poorly educated patients w/terminal cancer that refuse or limit the use of narcotics/sedatives, because they feel that it is wrong.

And I can educate until the cows come home, and they will still decline/limit their use, until QOL is seriously impaired.

And yet, you will have some people that would insist on IV dilaudid for a papercut.

There are also plenty of people that decline the use of alcohol that are not Puritans or Southern Baptist. If I recall, wild man Ted Nugent for decades, would not use alcohol (don't know if that is still true) because as he puts it, "Drugs make you stupid".

.....Of course, given Ted Nugent's behavior, he probably doesn't need any additional "stupid".

The reason is that if it requires alcohol for you to relax/be artistic/be social/be romantic/chill/be impressive/feel good, you have problem that is probably better fixed by other things than alcohol.

Some of us do not like MJ (or large amounts of alcohol) because makes most behave stupidly. That does not make us narrow minded nor tight sphinctered, merely well grounded.

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Part of the issue, is that the assumption that MJ helps w/chemo related nausea and emesis. With the advent of the 5HT3 meds (such as zofran) and use later on in the cycle, of ativan, this is not as valid an issue. However, it also means that these meds need to be adequately prescribed and covered better by insurance.

NH1 drugs (emend) are also available, but poorly covered by insurance. The 3 day series of emend provides 5-7 days of nausea coverage.

Many MDs are reluctant to order ativan, adequate narcotic pain meds due to DEA issues.

As for marinol, I have few if any cancer/HIV patients, that have reported any major nausea/pain relief from MJ. Most have done better w/ativan and common narcs. As far as appetite, there are also better appetite stimulents.

Of there are exceptions, many of whom have never seriously tried alternatives, and many of whom were previous users of MJ.

Though it is still used for glaucoma, for which there (to my limited knowledge) not many substitutes, if any.

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As far as "bong hits", people truly interested in medicinal use of MJ and in areas where medicinal use is accepted, know that smoking random MJ is probably not the optimal way get relief. Networks for such patients use hybrid sources with a well researched breeding plan for the plants, so that the active ingrediants are at a stable level and the product is distilled into a liquid for oral intake via cooking, or drinking. This eliminates all the problems associated smoking, and is substantially more discreet

Thus a "bong" hit is unnecessary.

Do I have a problem with some patients using MJ? No, but I really do not think that it should get widespread use. There are excellent drugs for treating most of the problems that MJ is to treat, if MDs will prescribe them and insurance will cover them and if patients will use them properly. We have enough abuse of alcohol and "legal" drugs to toss an extra one in that is only needed in limited circumstances.

KellNY, RN · Jul 15, 2006

We should then also allow all employers to screen and refuse employ to anybody on drugs.
If you need to use MJ cause you are disabled, so be it. But, once you use, you should be barred from legitimate employ until it clears your system.

First of all, I work Saturday nights, so no saturday night MJ parties for me, but thanks for implying stuff. :rolleyes: Second, I don't want it legalized, just decriminalized. Third, if I were to use it for my wild crazy weekday night parties (lol, joking), I'd have no problems accessing it at all. I remember in HS it was easier to get weed than cigs or alcohol. Whatever--all OT for this thread.

Fourth, MJ takes up to 30 days to clear the system. If someone takes uses it for their illness, they shouldn't be able to work for 30 days just because the drug hasn't "cleared their system"? Why not? --It's not effecting them for those 30 days. How long does MJ actually affect the person who smoked it? Well, it'd depend on the size of the person, biology of the person, nature of the illness being treated, tolerance level, dosing, etc (hey! just like ALL other drugs we prescribe! wow) but I'd guess MJ's effects last between 2hours, maybe 6 or 8?

If you're going to discriminate like that on medicinal marijuana users, then you'd have to send someone home who took a Vicodin for a tooth ache until it "clears their system".

Now before people start twisting my words--I'm not advocating for people to work while they're stoned. I'm not advocating for people to pop a couple of Vics and operate their bull dozers (or operate on a patient for that matter).

But there is this bs stigma that is doing nothing but hurting patients and limiting their choices. I am telling you now, that if I had cancer and decided to do chemo, I WOULD use marijuana if traditional antiemetics didn't work (and if I were at home, a PO antiemetic probably wouldn't do a great job). If I were dying, I'd probably smoke it. A lot of people I know would. SO now when I need my MJ, I have to buy it from Kenny down the street, or Joe two towns over? Instead of CVS or Ekerds? I have no idea what Kenny and Joe's stuff contains--there's no regulation for what $10 will get me--all stems and seeds (ie much less medication)? Pesticide? Contaminated MJ? A baggie of oregeno? MJ laced with something? How potent is this-is it more than I should be taking? Less? I'd have no idea because there are no "rules" no regulations, no guidlines.

And that's really what sick or dying people need-uncertainty, instability and unpredicable medication doses. :madface:

Kelly

allnurses Guide · Jul 15, 2006

There is a difference between accepting the use of medical MJ and eliminating a "stigma".
Morphine, ativan, dilaudid all still have a "stigma" to them. I have plenty of democrat/republican, liberal/conservative, rich/poor, atheist/agnostic/religious, intelligent/poorly educated patients w/terminal cancer that refuse or limit the use of narcotics/sedatives, because they feel that it is wrong.
And I can educate until the cows come home, and they will still decline/limit their use, until QOL is seriously impaired.
And yet, you will have some people that would insist on IV dilaudid for a papercut.
There are also plenty of people that decline the use of alcohol that are not Puritans or Southern Baptist. If I recall, wild man Ted Nugent for decades, would not use alcohol (don't know if that is still true) because as he puts it, "Drugs make you stupid".
.....Of course, given Ted Nugent's behavior, he probably doesn't need any additional "stupid".
The reason is that if it requires alcohol for you to relax/be artistic/be social/be romantic/chill/be impressive/feel good, you have problem that is probably better fixed by other things than alcohol.
Some of us do not like MJ (or large amounts of alcohol) because makes most behave stupidly. That does not make us narrow minded nor tight sphinctered, merely well grounded.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part of the issue, is that the assumption that MJ helps w/chemo related nausea and emesis. With the advent of the 5HT3 meds (such as zofran) and use later on in the cycle, of ativan, this is not as valid an issue. However, it also means that these meds need to be adequately prescribed and covered better by insurance.
NH1 drugs (emend) are also available, but poorly covered by insurance. The 3 day series of emend provides 5-7 days of nausea coverage.
Many MDs are reluctant to order ativan, adequate narcotic pain meds due to DEA issues.
As for marinol, I have few if any cancer/HIV patients, that have reported any major nausea/pain relief from MJ. Most have done better w/ativan and common narcs. As far as appetite, there are also better appetite stimulents.
Of there are exceptions, many of whom have never seriously tried alternatives, and many of whom were previous users of MJ.
Though it is still used for glaucoma, for which there (to my limited knowledge) not many substitutes, if any.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as "bong hits", people truly interested in medicinal use of MJ and in areas where medicinal use is accepted, know that smoking random MJ is probably not the optimal way get relief. Networks for such patients use hybrid sources with a well researched breeding plan for the plants, so that the active ingrediants are at a stable level and the product is distilled into a liquid for oral intake via cooking, or drinking. This eliminates all the problems associated smoking, and is substantially more discreet
Thus a "bong" hit is unnecessary.
Do I have a problem with some patients using MJ? No, but I really do not think that it should get widespread use. There are excellent drugs for treating most of the problems that MJ is to treat, if MDs will prescribe them and insurance will cover them and if patients will use them properly. We have enough abuse of alcohol and "legal" drugs to toss an extra one in that is only needed in limited circumstances.

Very nice post. :yeah:

The real truth is, there are better meds for sick people. The real truth is, the reason most folks want this legalized is to get high, not to medicate against nausea.

This IS the thread (right?) where I mentioned the two young men who got pulled over by my nephew (the CHP) and they whipped out prescriptions for the pot they had been smoking (while driving). There is a totally bitchen doc in the Santa Cruz area who routinely writes scripts for pot . . . dude.:monkeydance: :smokin:

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 15, 2006

Fourth, MJ takes up to 30 days to clear the system. If someone takes uses it for their illness, they shouldn't be able to work for 30 days just because the drug hasn't "cleared their system"? Why not?

You answer your own question.

Unlike alcohol, you cannot test for MJ actively affecting an employee. It remains in your system for much longer than it affects you.

If you are so sick with cancer that it is so debilitating that only MJ can help you gain a foothold, then you are too sick to be working, anyway. I do agree that there are more effective meds on the market.

However, if I were dying of cancer, I'd seriously consider using MJ. After all, as you suggest, it's not like it's hard to get.

But, if I'm planning on working on Monday, and I use MJ, I SHOULD lose my job.

The comparisons w/ alcohol don't match. I can test you to see if you are actively under the influence of alcohol.

I say fine, I've agreed with you. Decriminalize it. But:

1. allow for the legal termination from any employ of pot users.

2. even if you disagree with the above, its use WILL STILL result in revocation of licensure, even if legalized. The BONs have a greater responsibility to the public to not do anything else.

Don't ever count on the ability to party with MJ on your off days as a nurse. I think MJ WILL ultimately be decriminalized. But, not for nurses, mass transit operators, etc. etc.

~faith,

Timothy.

KellNY, RN · Jul 16, 2006

Okay, so what about narcotics then? Should all people who take a prn narcotic be fired if they have to work on monday as well? Same line of thinking.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 16, 2006

Okay, so what about narcotics then? Should all people who take a prn narcotic be fired if they have to work on monday as well? Same line of thinking.

They should be if the PRN rationale for such use is partying on their off days.

~faith,

Timothy.

KellNY, RN · Jul 16, 2006

They should be if the PRN rationale for such use is partying on their off days.

What are you talking about!?!? We're talking about medical usage here, for MJ and narcotics-not partying. Can we at least try to have a grown up conversation? Pretty please?

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 16, 2006

What are you talking about!?!? We're talking about medical usage here, for MJ and narcotics-not partying. Can we at least try to have a grown up conversation? Pretty please?

But that's the whole point. MJ for 'medical' purposes is a substitution argument. It is, a 'Chewbacca Defense' for legalization (wikipedia it). It has very little to do with the case for legalization, generally.

And the POINT is legalization, period. It is a means to undo a valid and reasonable law by subverting it.

This is the essence of the argument: you wouldn't want to deny a sick person aid, THEREFORE, bobby joe ought to be able to smoke MJ at his party this weekend.

~faith,

Timothy.