Do you think patients should have the right to use medical marijuana?

Roy Fokker, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2006

I'm still struggling to differentiate this issue from "Should patients be allowed to use Medical Speed" or "Should patients be allowed to use medical heroin derivatives"

etc.

If something helps me in my hour of need, I'm going to take it - to heck with what any beureucrat or judge has to say about it.

It is a means to undo a valid and reasonable law by subverting it.

Valid and reasonable?????

KellNY, RN · Jul 16, 2006

But that's the whole point. MJ for 'medical' purposes is a substitution argument. It is, a 'Chewbacca Defense' for legalization (wikipedia it). It has very little to do with the case for legalization, generally.
This is the essence of the argument: you wouldn't want to deny a sick person aid, THEREFORE, bobby joe ought to be able to smoke MJ at his party this weekend.

I'll say it one last time--I AM NOT FOR THE LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA.

I'm also done with your little chewbaca defense. You're obviously NOT interested in having an intelligent conversation, and I'm not interested in continuing this...whatever this is.

Kelly

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 16, 2006

I'll say it one last time--I AM NOT FOR THE LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA.
I'm also done with your little chewbaca defense. You're obviously NOT interested in having an intelligent conversation, and I'm not interested in continuing this...whatever this is.
Kelly

Don't shoot the messenger.

You have stated in the past that you aren't for 'legalization' but for 'decriminalization'.

I agreed with you. Decriminalize it but leave 'civil' penalties, such as not being able to find work, intact.

And yet, still you disagree with me. If you are for no penalties, criminal or civil, then you are for 'legalizing'. Everything else is mere semantics.

You don't like what I'm saying, so only YOU are being intelligent? I may be being a tad SATIRICAL in my arguments (chewbacca defense), I could have just as easily claimed that medical MJ use is a 'red herring' argument. But, being satirical is a HIGH form of intellectual debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense:

"Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, [approaches and softens] does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests."

And, if MJ could possibly have medicinal purposes ONLY BY BEING SMOKED, then you must legalize it. Pishaw. It's a red herring.

~faith,

Timothy.

KellNY, RN · Jul 16, 2006

It can't be a red herring if that's what the thread is based on.

And my not "liking" what you're saying has nothing to do with how I judge your posts.

And I never said that MJ can only have medicinal effects if smoked.

Pishaw all you want. I'm out.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 16, 2006

Valid and reasonable?????

Recreational drug use is NOT merely a personal liberty being over-regulated by the gov't. More than 50% of all car accidents involve recreational drugs. The costs in thefts and crime and ruined lives is abundantly clear.

Roy, a valid comparison is helmet laws. Why do we have them? Answer: to protect society from the astronomical costs involved in the stupidy of an individual's desire to exercise their 'rights' when society must ultimately pay the costs for those 'rights'.

Libertarian or no, your rights end where MY rights begin. Because MJ cannot be tested as an active component in a person's decision making (it stays in the system as detectable LONG after its effects ebb), MJ is a dangerous drug to legalize, or, if you will, DECRIMINALIZE.

Alcohol is bad enough. But AT LEAST we can prove, in a Court of law, that you are ACTUALLY inebriated by your etoh level. MJ decriminalization not only opens the door for many more DUI accidents, it does so in a way not empirically provable in Court.

A chief responsibility invested in Gov't in the Constitution is the obligation to 'promote the general welfare'. Protecting citizens from the invasion of their safety and liberty due to the careless acts of others IS promoting that general welfare.

In that, the criminalization of MJ is both valid and reasonable.

~faith,

Timothy.

rhenmag9 · Jul 16, 2006

agree!!..as long as it'll help the patient..not to harm them and put them in danger:uhoh21::uhoh21::uhoh21:

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 16, 2006

It can't be a red herring if that's what the thread is based on.
And my not "liking" what you're saying has nothing to do with how I judge your posts.
And I never said that MJ can only have medicinal effects if smoked.
Pishaw all you want. I'm out.

The argument itself is a red herring argument.

There are simply other and better means of controlling nausea and appetite stimulation than 'getting high'.

And even if there weren't, the costs of such reckless behavior TO society OUTWEIGH the benefits to a few IN society.

Legislating by extreme example is bad law. And the effects TO society are NOT extreme examples. They are all too common. You need look no further than the urban streets to see what drugs can do to society.

~faith,

Timothy.

nighteyes719 · Jul 16, 2006

I am a nurse and last year my Aunt was dying from bone cancer, her doctor ordered her pain medication that was over $350.00 a month and she could not afford it . I told my cousin to got down town and buy her a bag and see how it worked for her and he did . And her pain was undercontroll untill we had to put her in a hospic center, And I see it everyday. Now what fair here?? But I also worry about how far it would go. I see where we are pushing narcotics everyday to people who really need rehab not IVP drugs but we have to treat the pain?

Absolutely. There is no reason in this day and age that someone should suffer because weed is illegal. We refine it and put it in a pill and give it to people to increase their appetite. Hemp was a good cash crop in this country until someone decided it should be illegal. Research hemp and you will find that our country is a little backwards about it. Think about it. Narcotics are illegal if you don't have a script. Alcohol is legal and look how many people that kills, including driving under the influence. Tobacco kills people and it's legal. I am a hospice nurse, and I think my patients have a right to any substance that's going to ease their suffering and let them have a peaceful death. If it means rolling up and smoking a dube then they should be able to. We have more compassion for our animals in this country than we do our citizens.

dorimar, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2006

Timothy,

please. My mother- in- law has metestatic breast cancer. She has done well untill this last year. She is in agony with no appetite to boot. She did try megace with no resluts and it is not cheap. I see nothing wrong with her using it. The poster who said it really controlled her family members discomfort, makes me hopefull. She however doesn't feel right about it. It's a shame. I would condone any thing to make her feel better. My heart is breaking. I can't stand to read strong opinions from people who really have no idea.

JohnBearPA · Jul 16, 2006

Timothy,
please. My mother- in- law has metestatic breast cancer. She has done well untill this last year. She is in agony with no appetite to boot. She did try megace with no resluts and it is not cheap. I see nothing wrong with her using it. The poster who said it really controlled her family members discomfort, makes me hopefull. She however doesn't feel right about it. It's a shame. I would condone any thing to make her feel better. My heart is breaking. I can't stand to read strong opinions from people who really have no idea.

I agree. My Mom died a painful, undignified death due to vulvar ca. If MJ would have helped her, I sure as hell would have risked my license to purchase it, as the morphine really wasn't helping towards the end. The idea here is to protect the PT,,,, provide them comfort, and DIGNITY in their last days, as they well deserve!

pollyanna83 · Jul 16, 2006

What is really sad is that the Bible says that the cure is in the tree, vine, depending on the translation. If your not terminal or in great pain no crutch needed but for those who are it should be SOP.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 16, 2006

You guys missed my point.

I said go ahead and decriminalize MJ - and all other drugs. Take the street value out of them and end the 'drug war' by 'flooding the market'.

That would solve lots of jail overcrowding, solve many of the problems in Afganistan (opium being a 'cash' crop that the bottom would fall out of overnight if America wasn't its #1 customer, etc. etc.) It would save and redirect BILLIONS of dollars, both spent by our gov't and our citizens.

But, leave the civil 'penalties' intact. Use and no job until the drugs clear your system. And, random and frequent checks on employees. I mean, companies now claim the right to deny employ if you smoke CIGARETTES. Surely, it's not a stretch to decriminalize drugs WHILE keeping civil stigmas intact.

That way, all your anecdotal stories about MJ helping people at the end of their lives would not be at issue.

Using MJ as a party drug - would be.

It's a viable compromise but won't work. Why not? Medical MJ is a red herring in order to legalize MJ generally. If the goal is medical use for debilitated citizens, not being able to work is an afterthought.

If the goal is partying on the weekends, civil penalities is still a no-go.

~faith,

Timothy.