Do you think nursing would be more advanced as a profression if...

Nurses General Nursing

Published

It wasn't so women dominated? No offense, but it seems like nursing still has a "stay in the kitchen and make me sandwiches" mentality sometimes.

Just a thought.

Specializes in FNP.

I agree that entry to RN practice should be a MSN. And I agree that it will never happen. I could settle for BSN, grudgingly, lol.

As to the thread topic, a good book on the subject:

http://www.press.uillinois.edu/books/catalog/58bhd3bk9780252032479.html

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Infectious Disease, Neuro, Research.
If you are good and efficient at what you do, you will earn respect. If you're an ignorant butt-hole, you won't. That applies to everyone, nurses, doctors, engineers, plumbers, electricians.....

True. I think (and Spikey may correct me, if necessary) that the social status of nursing and nurses is not necessarily in question, but how nurses are treated. This gets into some primary differences between male/female communication styles and social hierarchies.

These are generalizations, people, that means "generalizable".;)

Men in leadership, in practical fields(not politics), are typically those who are highly individualistic and are able to elicit the best individualist aspects of team members, and coordinate those talents into a chohesive effort.

Females in leadership tend to be builders of power-blocks, and they will tend to exclude even talented individuals who exhibit social characteristics that are not well-aligned with the group.

In male dominated fields, weaknesses are typically related to a member of the group/team who feels under-appreciated. I.e., an individual may break away from the team to pursue his own goals if the rewards are not (perceived) adequate. This may endanger a unit of enterprise, but (typically) not an entire field.

In female dominated fields, the weaknesses are group-relational. Yes, girls(not in any diminutive, patronizing sense), cliques.:cool: These groups coalesce around the strongest personalities, and group affiliation is fairly rigid. This is fractional to an entire field, because differential philosophies develop, simply in rejection of the other/another group, and not necessarily on an objective basis.

Pretty much the only arena where these generalizations actually reverse polarity is religion. In this setting, women tend to be more receptive to individualistic variance, men much less so.

Why? Men are much more concrete. In business, "Does this bring me money? Yes. Its probably good." In religion, "This is what I believe. Period."

Women are far more relational. In business, "Does this bring me money? Yes. Okay, but am I harming those who see me as "good"? Will my friends agree with the decision? What is the cost to my family...?" In religion, "This is what I believe. For the church family to be sustained/grow, we need to be inclusive..."

All that to say, men are far more willing to ramrod, nail hides to the barn door, and we receive fulfillment in the accomplishing of tasks(why we tend to specialize more and sooner in nursing). My personal belief is that we need to develop a clear set of practical standards with supporting theoretical framework and cast it in stone. Currently, tasks are downplayed as, "low-level thinking", and, "stuff you learn on the job". Theory is not practice, and critical thinking comes with application of practice, not scenario discussion.

Put another way, would you feel comfortable with a cop, sent to rescue your child at the scene of a school shooting, who had 80 credit hours talking about handling his firearm, and 10 actual practicum hours of handling...? (Sadly, not far off, but that's another discussion...)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Infectious Disease, Neuro, Research.
I agree that entry to RN practice should be a MSN. And I agree that it will never happen. I could settle for BSN, grudgingly, lol.

As to the thread topic, a good book on the subject:

http://www.press.uillinois.edu/books/catalog/58bhd3bk9780252032479.html

She has some good points, however, my personal feel was that this was exploring a way to create a female-dominated field that could assume the "Mantle of Medicine".

My argument against this is the same as the basis for my profound lack of awe for many physcians. To practice, "at this level", you must be reasonably (though certainly not profoundly) intelligent and capable of critical thinking- you must also have substantial financial and time(much misspent) resources. No evidence for my position, but based on typical group performance in specialized fields, the only things separating 5-10% of RNs and Paramedics from "MD" is money(discounting the Trial Lawyers Assn).

If we want to create respect for the profession, raise the performance standards (kill about 20% of the nursing programs in the country). Otherwise, you're only creating Masters/PhDs who have no practical basis for their theory, no effective means of trial and implementation, and are essentially the neuveau-riche, without social worth and who have purchsed their status.

Kinda like many MBAs...

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Psych , Peds ,Nicu.

I would choose the physician with the best clinical reputation !

Simply put you can have all the pieces of paper you want but if you a can't apply that knowledge practically then what value does it have .

Yes I realise you worked hard , so I am not trying to belittle your effort and indeed you should be proud of your CCRN .

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in wound care.

why is the wedding dress white?? to match the appliances duhh now go make me a sandwich

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in being a Credible Source.

I haven't experienced nor observed the "get in the kitchen and make me some sandwiches" mentality that you describe but there is a negative tenor to nursing which I've never experienced in any other work environment (which, for me, have always been overwhelmingly male).

However, I'm not sure if it has anything to do with gender or rather if it's the strict hierarchy of the health care industry or some how related to the service-nature of it (I've always been in design, operations, or production environments).

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Infectious Disease, Neuro, Research.
why is the wedding dress white?? to match the appliances duhh now go make me a sandwich

Sleepin' outside tonight, bro?:D And get it right, its "Sammich!"

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med Surg - Renal.
It wasn't so women dominated? No offense, but it seems like nursing still has a "stay in the kitchen and make me sandwiches" mentality sometimes.

Just a thought.

Any profession in a male-dominated society is going to have an array of consequences for being primarily staffed by women.

That being said, nursing does pretty danged well compared to many other traditionally female staffed positions.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med Surg - Renal.
Nursing will be more respected as a profession when it changes its entry level into practice. My pharmacist has a pharmD, my physical therapist has a masters degree and PT now entering are getting a doctorate. Nursing has to bite the bullet and decide that a masters degree is the minimal entry level into practice--this debate in nursing has been going on for over 40 years!!

How exactly is this going to add more respect to the profession?

Think about it: Lets say you make this change so MSN is entry level RN. Now what happens? Well, you lose a gajillion RNs and don't get any to replace them.

So you pull all the RNs off the floor, employ the one or two Master's level RNs you can find and push all the nursing duties down to unlicensed personnel - all doing cares on that one poor MSNs license.

Neato!

Hell, let's make a doctorate the minimal entry level RN? I'm sure society will feel so much different and better if they knew that person doing their 24-hour urine collection has a different jumble of letters after her name.

Same goes for PTs. Does anyone here have a ton more respect (I personally hold PTs and OTs in very high regard) for Physical Therapists because they have a Phd? Because of that shift they now hire fewer PTs and more PTAs (Physical Therapist Assistants). If OTs do the same thing you'll just have more OT assistants.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med Surg - Renal.
To understand nursing and how women in nursing might be viewed, you must go back to it's origins! My older sister, who is now deceased, was a nurse against her father's wishes. He told her that a nurse is nothing more than a glorified hooker!

Jeez I think I'm a *bit* more than a glorified hooker!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med Surg - Renal.
Yes, I think that a master's should be entry level into practice. Why are pharmacists and physical therapists paid more than nurses?

Don't kid yourself, that "alphabet soup" of qualifications means something. I studied and worked for my CCRN and I am proud of it. I maintain it because it means that I have achieved a certian level of competency in critical cae. If you needed heart surgery, would you choose a physician who is board certified in cardiac surgery or a physician who didn't do a residency?

No one asked about board certifications or clinical competencies.

I believe the alphabet soup currently under discussion is the ADN, BSN, MSN,....

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
It wasn't so women dominated? No offense, but it seems like nursing still has a "stay in the kitchen and make me sandwiches" mentality sometimes.

Just a thought.

Gotta get them turkey sandwiches out, you know. Priorities, people!

I think nursing would be better if there were more males in terms of diversity. I don't know that it would make people respect the profession any more.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment