Do you think nursing would be more advanced as a profression if...

trauma_lama, BSN · Sep 30, 2011

BAHAHAH wow this sounds like a troll for sure to me...

RN34TX · Sep 30, 2011

Regarding the thought that a higher entry level in education would create more respect....I do believe this is true. Let's take teaching as an example. More and more states are requiring them to have a mater's degree for entry level. I honestly believe teachers are taken seriously. People value their opinion. I cant even tell you how many people done understand the educational requirement for an RN...or what an RN is vs. an LPN. Or for that matter how many times patients done even understand the responsibilities of RNs vs. nurses aides. The public doesnt understand the educational requirements to become an RN, so that factors into why they dont respect it. While the specifics to some are a little fuzzy, EVERYONE knows that docs have a lot of schooling, so they value them. I do feel like we arent taken seriously, but not because of gender, but due to education.

It is due to conditioning and our culture, to value physicians, not education.

Yes the public is confused and in the dark about what educational requirements are involved in different levels of nursing. Those same people are no more savvy in knowing what is involved in becoming a physician than they are with nursing. They just know that it takes " a lot of schooling" which means that they are conditioned to respect physicians without question, not really understand and appreciate what they do and/or how they are trained.

No different than being conditioned as a child to think of a nurse as a female. Conditioning period.

I find it so interesting how nursing is compared with the teaching profession over and over on this website on multiple topics. Another under-valued and under-respected profession that continues to expect more and more from it's members but fails to compensate them for their efforts.

My employer has a clinical ladder system that now requires a BSN at a certain level and an MSN at another level that until recently had no such requirements.

They made no provisions for compensation for tuition reimbursement nor did they raise the pay grade for these new requirements.

They want BSN and MSN prepared nurses for the same pay they offered 5 years ago to ADN prepared nurses.

They want to upgrade the profession, but at our blood, sweat, tears, and expense. They want to do it where we as RN's dig ourselves into deep student debt and get the same reward offered to nurses at an ADN level 5 years ago.

Nurses who continue to advocate for higher educational standards are educating themselves right out of a job.

I'm not going back to school to still be paid as a bedside care nurse for an additional $1.00/hr with a $20,000 student loan debt.

pedicurn, LPN, RN · Sep 30, 2011

Nursing will be more respected as a profession when it changes its entry level into practice. My pharmacist has a pharmD, my physical therapist has a masters degree and PT now entering are getting a doctorate. Nursing has to bite the bullet and decide that a masters degree is the minimal entry level into practice--this debate in nursing has been going on for over 40 years!!

Agree with you.

However .... as long as the 'nursing's all about on-the-job training / having a degree wont make me a better nurse' brigade are still out in force ....it aint going to happen.

When my charge nurse (who hasn't got a bachelors - let alone a masters) can get the job done, why should it change??

Fact is, she is sharp and experienced and my facility thinks that's fine enough.

Come to think of it ... why is it she can get the job done without a university education?

Have we been deskilled? Was nursing never a profession anyway?

Maybe this is proof:uhoh3:

Aubrianna · Sep 30, 2011

Umm, would there be a nursing profession without woman? What a simple minded statement, please tell me that is not entering our world of nursing.

Aubrianna · Sep 30, 2011

My husbands confused, he cant figure out how his staying in the kitchen has anything to do with my nursing career?

Aubrianna · Sep 30, 2011

An RN is in college all day everyday when they are work assessing and caring for the patient. Not even college it should be something held to a higher status. Can I just share, I was the nursing student explaining the equipment to the residents. So, if a patient goes into an emergency state at that moment I am the only one who knows what is what and how to you it and why? Just like every other nurse.

nyrn5125 · Oct 3, 2011

It is due to conditioning and our culture, to value physicians, not education.
Yes the public is confused and in the dark about what educational requirements are involved in different levels of nursing. Those same people are no more savvy in knowing what is involved in becoming a physician than they are with nursing. They just know that it takes " a lot of schooling" which means that they are conditioned to respect physicians without question, not really understand and appreciate what they do and/or how they are trained.
No different than being conditioned as a child to think of a nurse as a female. Conditioning period.
I find it so interesting how nursing is compared with the teaching profession over and over on this website on multiple topics. Another under-valued and under-respected profession that continues to expect more and more from it's members but fails to compensate them for their efforts.
My employer has a clinical ladder system that now requires a BSN at a certain level and an MSN at another level that until recently had no such requirements.
They made no provisions for compensation for tuition reimbursement nor did they raise the pay grade for these new requirements.
They want BSN and MSN prepared nurses for the same pay they offered 5 years ago to ADN prepared nurses.
They want to upgrade the profession, but at our blood, sweat, tears, and expense. They want to do it where we as RN's dig ourselves into deep student debt and get the same reward offered to nurses at an ADN level 5 years ago.
Nurses who continue to advocate for higher educational standards are educating themselves right out of a job.
I'm not going back to school to still be paid as a bedside care nurse for an additional $1.00/hr with a $20,000 student loan debt.

love this post. people always think I'm nuts when my opinion is that RN are educating themselves out of their jobs. A minimum of nurses do want to go back to become NP, but a lot of us do not/cannot. And our fellow nurses are advocating basically one day to raise the requirement and where does that leave the ADN

Cul2 · Oct 3, 2011

"However .... as long as the 'nursing's all about on-the-job training / having a degree wont make me a better nurse' brigade are still out in force ....it aint going to happen."

True, but it's not any more about on the job training that are many professions. Look at teaching. Granted, teachers need to know the content, but how do you really learn "teach" and interact with students? You learn on the job. As with many professions, when you combine great on the job training, years of experience, dedication, professionalism -- and then you add a BSN or an MA -- you've got the best of the best.

mrmedical, ASN, BSN · Oct 3, 2011

I don't really see the efficacy in upping the ante to MSN for areas such as bedside nursing. Management and teaching may be more prone to the "upgrade".

But lets be honest with ourselves here; as it stands nursing - and specifically bedside nursing at that - boils down to good technical and observational skills that you pick up on the job, in addition to a little bit of the patho/pharm you retain from school. You can teach all the technical skills in a garage during a lazy Sunday afternoon. As for critical thinking, most if not all of it is common sense, despite many people will never be able to wrap their mind around it.

That said, to tie in my main point - tacking on more education and nursing "theory" and fluff courses offered in the MSN degree isn't going to make one a better bedside nurse. Maybe a better case manager or administrative staff

fuzzywuzzy, CNA · Oct 3, 2011

I'm a CNA, but I say the same thing. Since this job is and always has been dominated by women, the pay is low. It's primarily seen as a nurturing, pillow-fluffing, caregiving job with little "real" value. If it had been male-dominated from the start, I think the hard manual labor aspect of it would have been emphasized over the emotional side and the pay would have been better from the beginning. I also think educational requirements in all levels of nursing need to be bumped up from what they are.

AgentBeast, BSN, RN · Oct 3, 2011

Men generally make better nurses, and women make better physicians.

I do agree that the education should be harder, but I don't think that making MSN the minimum point of entry into the profession is the answer. Really increasing the required number of clinical hours, reducing class sizes, and increasing the number of required science based courses wouldn't be a bad start.

Armygirl7 · Oct 6, 2011

scotte: "men generally make better nurses, and women make better physicians."

ha ha - i so disagree with you on this!

gender has nothing to do with it.

innate qualities, a dose of humility, and a willingness to work hard make people good at what they do.

peace.