Do you think nursing would be more advanced as a profression if...

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It wasn't so women dominated? No offense, but it seems like nursing still has a "stay in the kitchen and make me sandwiches" mentality sometimes.

Just a thought.

Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Nursing will be more respected as a profession when it changes its entry level into practice. My pharmacist has a pharmD, my physical therapist has a masters degree and PT now entering are getting a doctorate. Nursing has to bite the bullet and decide that a masters degree is the minimal entry level into practice--this debate in nursing has been going on for over 40 years!!

You could make a doctorate the entry-level into nursing practice. When it comes down to brass tacks, nurses will still be viewed as the people who fetch food, blankets, etc. by many people.

If practicing at an entry-level requires a master's degree, they're going to need to do some major adjusting when it comes to wages. I doubt many people will work that hard in school for $19-20/h.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Yes, I think that a master's should be entry level into practice. Why are pharmacists and physical therapists paid more than nurses?

Don't kid yourself, that "alphabet soup" of qualifications means something. I studied and worked for my CCRN and I am proud of it. I maintain it because it means that I have achieved a certian level of competency in critical cae. If you needed heart surgery, would you choose a physician who is board certified in cardiac surgery or a physician who didn't do a residency?

A physician who didn't complete the appropriate residency wouldn't be doing the surgery, period.

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Specializes in ED.

This is not an easy question to answer outside the broader context of sexism in society.

Consider that the OP questions the correlation between advancement of the profession by hitting these 3 subjects in his question: "women, the kitchen, and get me a sandwich" - pretty much says it all!

If a profession is laden with the stereotypes historically used to degrade and dismiss the contributions of a particular population then it will suffer the "perception" that is predominant in the society related to that particular population.

So in a facile way - yes if nurses were all men then it would be a more respected and advanced profession because overall men's work is still more highly compensated and more respected in society than is women's.

Advancement has less to do with competence, gender management style, or degrees - it has to do with sexism and its historical influence on society's perceptions.

Also I would say nursing has advanced quite a bit over the past 50 years - if you look at the history of nursing as a profession in the US it has come a long way baby! Long way to go I agree - and we can all as individuals and collectively continue that advancement by being the best we can be and also fighting for social justice across society.

Peace!

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I think that more men coming into the profession would definitely benefit nursing, but I don't think that the profession lacks respect because it is female dominated. In fact, I think that most people respect the profession and don't believe we are just maids. I do think that a BSN should be the minimal requirements. In reality the ADN nurses are just as well trained due to the grueling nature of many of the programs, they aren't choosing the programs because they can't hack the BSN but because the ADN is a MUCH cheaper option. Having a previously earned BS I chose the ADN option rather than BSN because I couldn't afford the high cost of a 4yr institution all over again. I have felt snubbed because of not attending a 4yr institution so I think the BSN is more respected. However, I do not take it personally because I know my level of competence. I will continue to pursue higher education as I also think that more PhD's in the field researching ways to improve on what we do is a great way to continue our progress as respected professionals.

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Specializes in LTC currently.

I don't think that increasing education to a minimal of a BSN or a MSN will increase the level of respect for the nursing profession. It doesn't take a BSN equipped nurse to pass medication and do all of.the necessary duties to implement quality treatment at a long term care facility or in a hospital either. I think that all the nurse managers who hold positions should have a BSN because of the additional theory and level of education. If a nurse desire to move into management they should have to be BSN or higher. Nurses who want to stay at bedside should be able to work with an Associates, Diploma Or LPN certificate. It's not the degree that makes the person, but the stronger their clinical knowledge is, but i still think that director of nurses and what not should have the higher degree. I believe the nursing profession is trying to move toward having BSN and higher as charge nurses by 2013 if I am not mistaken. Feel free to correct lme if I'm wrong

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Specializes in PACU, OR.
why is the wedding dress white?? to match the appliances duhh now go make me a sandwich

Sleepin' outside tonight, bro?:D And get it right, its "Sammich!"

Off topic, but I think you'd find this amusing...

http://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoevolution.com%2Fnews%2F2012-toyota-hilux-ad-toughness-rubs-off-on-women-video-39079.html&rct=j&q=make%20me%20a%20sandwich%20toyota%20ad&ei=ijKCTsv8KonqmAX-nfwj&usg=AFQjCNGVJb9dbgaZ__UZnzO__butkRAYLA&sig2=7-sROAWB4cQO1tTFhb47vA&cad=rja

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I have to agree w/ original poster. Look at teaching, administrative assistants and other female dominated occupations. I come from an anthropological background so I would venture to say that women tend to think and operate with the underlying motivation being the greater good. Men tend to be more competitive and individually motivated thus allowing them to attain more positions of authority.

Don't get your panties in a bunch, there are many exceptions but statistics are statistics and we have many underlying biological motivations that move us through life in different ways depending on our sex. Men must compete with each other to procreate and women are biologically motivated to bear and nurture children. Interesting to think how this translates into the workplace.

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Specializes in Med/Surg.

When I've worked with female administrators/DONs, it's been really good work environments (and mostly in LTC, where women have a better shot at the top position). I had a male DON pull a gun on me when I asked about the discontinued meds- and when he wanted me to start logging them in again (a weekend sup job)....he'd been diverting, so I don't see him as much of an asset to any sort of position relating to humans. Call me picky. :D

This wasn't BECAUSE he was a man, though....a woman is just as capable of diverting. This has nothing to do with gender.

Nursing will be more respected as a profession when it changes its entry level into practice. My pharmacist has a pharmD, my physical therapist has a masters degree and PT now entering are getting a doctorate. Nursing has to bite the bullet and decide that a masters degree is the minimal entry level into practice--this debate in nursing has been going on for over 40 years!!

However, many RN positions simply do not require a Master's education. It would make one overqualified, so what would be the point? I don't even agree with raising the entry level to a BSN, much less a Master's....doesn't make sense.

why is the wedding dress white?? to match the appliances duhh now go make me a sandwich

WTH?

I don't think that increasing education to a minimal of a BSN or a MSN will increase the level of respect for the nursing profession. It doesn't take a BSN equipped nurse to pass medication and do all of.the necessary duties to implement quality treatment at a long term care facility or in a hospital either. I think that all the nurse managers who hold positions should have a BSN because of the additional theory and level of education. If a nurse desire to move into management they should have to be BSN or higher. Nurses who want to stay at bedside should be able to work with an Associates, Diploma Or LPN certificate. It's not the degree that makes the person, but the stronger their clinical knowledge is, but i still think that director of nurses and what not should have the higher degree. I believe the nursing profession is trying to move toward having BSN and higher as charge nurses by 2013 if I am not mistaken. Feel free to correct lme if I'm wrong

This rumor has been going on for ages. There are no plans to actually make this happen, by any sort of deadline. It's been discussed for decades.

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Specializes in Med/Surg.

I think the amount of respect (or lack thereof) in nursing has less to do with the profession being female-dominated and more to do with the fact that laypeople just really don't understand what RN's DO. It's still WAY too common to hear people make the "bedpan" and "buttwiping" jokes. They don't understand the intricacies of what we do.

Until THAT changes, I don't see the amount of respect we get changing.

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Specializes in Rehab, critical care.

I am somewhere in the middle. I don't think advanced degrees=respect. I agree that respect comes with competence and excelling in your field. For instance, clinically, you could be sub-par and be an NP with many other degrees, etc. You could have a very intelligent BSN nurse, and a BSN nurse that could not fix her way out of a paper bag. Similarly, you could have an ADN nurse that is awesome and excels clinically, and an ADN nurse that is as dumb as rocks on the other hand. Excelling in any field is more than just the education one has received. It really comes down to the individual's clinical abilities, professionalism, and attitude. This debate has been going on forever, and I see the merit to both sides.

This is not to say that education is not important. I think every nurse should advance themselves, become certified in their specialty, etc. I plan on getting my CCRN after the required 2 years in the specialty and furthering my education. However, someone who chooses not to do that is no less of a nurse than someone who chooses to receive more formal education. Everybody has their unique gifts and talents, and if we just look at someone as the sum of their degrees, then we are doing them a disservice. Someone who studies independently could be just, if not more, knowledgeable and useful in the clinical arena than someone with multiple advanced nursing degrees, certifications.

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Specializes in pcu/stepdown/telemetry.
I think the amount of respect (or lack thereof) in nursing has less to do with the profession being female-dominated and more to do with the fact that laypeople just really don't understand what RN's DO. It's still WAY too common to hear people make the "bedpan" and "buttwiping" jokes. They don't understand the intricacies of what we do.

this is so true. A pt going home wanted a visiting registered nurse because she needs help with bathing and toileting, not a home health aide, but an RN she wants. I had to explain to her what nurses do and what home health aides do

People really do not know

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Specializes in Rehab, critical care.

Oh, and I don't think it's necessary to change the level of entry into practice. You can learn what you need to learn in 2 years (or apparently, according to the Accelerated BSN programs, 1 year). Pharmacist? Nope, you can't learn it all in 2 years. The whole NP needing a doctorate is BS in my opinion. You can learn what you need to learn in 2 years (after receiving your BSN). PA's take 2 years of post-bacc., as well, and I don't see them changing their entry of practice into a doctorate. Nursing is trying to change the level of entry because it has an inferiority complex compared to other professions, plain and simple (which it shouldn't; I am proud to be a nurse). In order to compensate, they're just tacking on extra classes that don't actually help you practice more effectively as a nurse (i.e. leadership, etc). Take it for what it is, just my opinion.

Don't take this the wrong way; there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting a doctorate, but to require it when it isn't necessary is just dumb. Eventually, when I look at going back for my NP, I may just leave nursing to become a PA if it is more cost effective (would rather not, but I am not going to spend an extra $40,000 on school if I have other options, and I bet this trend will lead other good nurses looking to advance themselves to do the same). Why spend extra time and money on school if I don't have to? My hospital would pay for a portion of my schooling to encourage education/staying in the hospital system, but it's still the time factor. Cross that bridge when I get there lol.

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