Do you think nursing would be more advanced as a profression if...

PMFB-RN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

What I meant to say, would the profession be taken more seriously if it weren't so women dominated...quote]
*** Of course. Is there really any serious debate on this?

birdie22 · Sep 28, 2011

Regarding the thought that a higher entry level in education would create more respect....I do believe this is true. Let's take teaching as an example. More and more states are requiring them to have a mater's degree for entry level. I honestly believe teachers are taken seriously. People value their opinion. I cant even tell you how many people done understand the educational requirement for an RN...or what an RN is vs. an LPN. Or for that matter how many times patients done even understand the responsibilities of RNs vs. nurses aides. The public doesnt understand the educational requirements to become an RN, so that factors into why they dont respect it. While the specifics to some are a little fuzzy, EVERYONE knows that docs have a lot of schooling, so they value them. I do feel like we arent taken seriously, but not because of gender, but due to education.

adoglover · Sep 28, 2011

Regarding the thought that a higher entry level in education would create more respect....I do believe this is true. Let's take teaching as an example. More and more states are requiring them to have a mater's degree for entry level. I honestly believe teachers are taken seriously. People value their opinion. I cant even tell you how many people done understand the educational requirement for an RN...or what an RN is vs. an LPN. Or for that matter how many times patients done even understand the responsibilities of RNs vs. nurses aides. The public doesnt understand the educational requirements to become an RN, so that factors into why they dont respect it. While the specifics to some are a little fuzzy, EVERYONE knows that docs have a lot of schooling, so they value them. I do feel like we arent taken seriously, but not because of gender, but due to education.

One of my old teachers has her masters in education, and she have respect for the associate degree nurses who went to the community colleges because she know how rigorous the program is. She even quoted that it is more diffict than obtaining a masters in education....she gives credit even though the degree of education is less.

Juwon · Sep 28, 2011

Higher education will not lead to more respect for the nursing profession. At my school, the Physician Assistant program awards an Associates Degree just as the nursing program. The thing is, they have more men entering the program than females, and i think that kind of corresponds with a more respectable profession IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC EYES. Also, the salary for the physician Assistant is higher than nurses as well. Could this be due to the fact that it is more male headed?

Food for thought: is the nursing profession not seeing the level of respect as other professions because nurses are viewed as a dime a dozen unlike other professions?

birdie22 · Sep 28, 2011

One of my old teachers has her masters in education, and she have respect for the associate degree nurses who went to the community colleges because she know how rigorous the program is. She even quoted that it is more diffict than obtaining a masters in education....she gives credit even though the degree of education is less.

While I know there are people who do have respect, but as you said, she knows how rigorous the program is.....in my personal experience, the majority of people do not know how rigorous nursing is and therefore dont show the respect I think we deserve.

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

This wasn't BECAUSE he was a man, though....a woman is just as capable of diverting. This has nothing to do with gender.

I agree...just pointing out that more males aren't necessarily the "fix" :)

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

Yeah this is the general consensus I was looking for.

So, you're only looking for the responses you want....not what those who have had more experience than you've been on the planet are offering in this "discussion".....learning also involves learning what you don't want to squeeze out of someone :)

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

I will respectfully disagree.
Look at the "satisfaction surveys" most facilities use. They have nothing to do with patient or staff satisfaction, but with validation of developing business models.
The "advanced degree" concept really got rolling in business in the 80s. Its hard to see that things are appreciably better in any sense. The effect on Nursing will be the same, because we are pursuing the same goals with the same standards.
Don't believe it? RNs are already, increasingly, the licensed buffer between management and the UAPs/MAs/etc., just as a BS is the managerial buffer between the drooling CS moron and the MBA section head to the CEO. Hmmm...

:) Every Press-Ganey survey I've filled out in the last 1 1/2 years (probably 12-15) has been soley focused on patient impressions/satisfacton. ALL of the questions were patient related. The sections about staff (various departments) were about how the patient felt about their interaction with those staff.... The seem to be used as "threats" for poor scores (one ED that I've talked about in the past, and their really lousy care- this was 5-7 years ago- so if they've changed, great. They posted their 60% satisfaction scores in the hall for all to see..... :uhoh3: They advertised their less than mediocre scores. :eek:

Do you really want a MS prepared nurse STARTING in patient care only after getting the Masters???? That's a recipe for major issues re: basic ability to interact with patients. And any facility who hires an MSN for management w/o clinical skills is really stupid. Nurses have to get practical experience- about 40% luck of the draw re: assignment, and 60% initiative to go find the learning situations. :nurse:

I graduated in 1985- in Illinois. The big deal then was ADN/Diploma vs BSN (this is SO old :yawn: .....MSN and above weren't discussed at all. People wanted to get an education that made them marketable, and do a job they'd thought of for a long time (not everybody, but I keep hearing about "always wanting to be a nurse". JME :)

Rob72, ASN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

:) Every Press-Ganey survey I've filled out in the last 1 1/2 years (probably 12-15) has been soley focused on patient impressions/satisfacton. ALL of the questions were patient related. The sections about staff (various departments) were about how the patient felt about their interaction with those staff.... The seem to be used as "threats" for poor scores (one ED that I've talked about in the past, and their really lousy care- this was 5-7 years ago- so if they've changed, great. They posted their 60% satisfaction scores in the hall for all to see..... They advertised their less than mediocre scores.
:)

I think we're on the same page. The research model (of P-G) is highly biased towards negative reporting. In turn, this validates the "perpetual reward", i.e., the award everyone will receive if the score reaches point X(okay, perhaps every 2 years;). Gotta keep that donkey walkin'...).

Because the surveys mandate identification of a specific individual(and make this extremely burdensome) for individualized reward, those that are likely to be "high performers", according to P-G, are less likely to be actual performers, as much as PR "faces". PG also uses mouth-breathing morons in their call center. When calling patients for a survey, it is adviseable to utilize individuals more personable than the average slug. But, if you want to keep giving only 2% annual raises (or less), negative satisfaction surveys, in a flooded job market, are a great way to validate doing so...

guest538567 · Sep 28, 2011

I will agree with some posters that nursing would be better off with an increased concentration of males. I do believe this would increase salaries but not for the previously stated reasons. Males are more likely to negotiate salaries than female counterparts. We had a lengthy discussion regarding this in my MSN program. Male NPs tend to have greater starting salaries than female NPs and it is almost always related to negotiating. I have experienced this in the workplace as well. Many nurses just accept the original job offer that HR gives them without countering. I think males tend to be more assertive in the workplace and this can lead to positive change.

In my opinion, the best thing nursing could do to advance the profession is move past a technician role. This has been the historical shift as you see nurses assuming leadership roles and responsibility in the care process. Nurses still are associated with task management and are thereby expendable to an employer. Staff nurses have very little power and control in current work settings. Power and advancement for the staff nurse would come with increased complexity of tasks and reimbursement for services. This is a key differentiation between some of the other professions listed in this thread (NP, PA, MD, Pharmacy). These professions have more control and recognition over their practices because the employer is able to bill directly for their services. As long as the nursing care is lumped in with dietary and janitorial services, staff level positions will just be part of the personnel cost to the hospital/employer and therefore expendable. I think gender/education have less to do with this issue than the above.

anniv91106 · Sep 28, 2011

You want entry level to nursing to be what ?? Masters , aint ever going to happen .
Level of education will never gain us respect , cohesiveness and being able to support colleagues , rather than running for cover at the first signs of trouble , these are the things that gain work groups respect .
Sorry but thats the reality , do you think employers will suddenly change there spots when nurses are MSN and pay them what they deserve , rather than what they can get away with , or stop giving us more and more of the formerly ancilliary tasks so that we are the most well educated dusters of shelves.
Most professionals are respected for being able to do their job well , not because of the alphabet soup of qualifications / certifications they have .

I am surprised, on this forum, at how often people are advised to 'run'.

Cul2 · Sep 30, 2011

"the majority of people do not know how rigorous nursing is and therefore dont show the respect I think we deserve."

I agree with the first half of that statement. Try this next time someone questions the rigorousness of nurse training -- send them to the college bookstore, or to Barnes and Noble. Have them go to the nursing section, grab a few books, sit down, and thumb through them. Just glancing at the texts, the testing guides, the handbooks, etc. should give them a clue.

But, I don't agree with the second part of the above sentence. I don't think that this ignorance on the part of the public translates into disrespect for the profession.

However, I do believe that the standard of education for a nurse should be at least a BSN. That would give more time, not only for the technical, medical curriculum, but more time for clinicals and more time for sociology, psychology and maybe even a literature or foreign language class or two and/or other humanities courses.