Do nurses hate nursing?

JKL33 · Feb 12, 2021

@Susie2310 - I don't disagree with you. I think part of my personal experience is that I had gained some significant degree of proficiency/expertise in bedside care by the time corporations in my area were deciding that wasn't valuable to them any more. They orchestrated the revolving-door-novice situation themselves. It is less expensive for them and easier to control.

The other thing I meant by the quoted comment is just the idea that, very generally speaking, people who are doing a role know how that role works and if their experiences in that role are valued at all by others, then they will be consulted about how to change or improve things when something needs to be changed or improved. The situation with nursing has simply become others meddling in the work and dictating how those doing the work will operate. This is done in a way that will either make one laugh or cry depending upon personality. Like the day that a supply chain management employee was brought down to ED to study our work and create new workflows for us.

He came up with ideas like:

1) Nurses who had been working there for years probably couldn't find the supplies they needed because there weren't pictures of them on the cabinets. So if there were pictures of the items on the cabinets then we would be able to find them more quickly and we would be able to move much faster.

2) A certain assigned nurse needs to do [Thing A] and [Thing B]. Never mind that these things occur simultaneously, must be done in person (not electronically) and occur in two areas that are on opposite sides of the department; in fact, one isn't even in the department at all but rather the waiting room. And this goofball designed a process where a particular assigned RN would be responsible for both of these things; it was literally (in the most literal sense of the word literal) physically impossible.

This type of thing has gone on and on and on. And on. I promise it isn't something I got jacked up about because it happened once or twice or even 10 times. The two examples I gave are simple and kind of ridiculous, but some of the dozens and hundreds of other changes were not even safe for patients. I became intolerant because nurses were being vilified and disrespected and disparaged at every turn when trying to advocate for patients then spited when they didn't appreciate being commanded to do things that were stupid, impossible or downright unsafe.

Anyway. I won't disagree with you about there being less and less experience at the bedside. But that was purposeful because it is advantageous for very large corporations (profit, non-for profit doesn't matter). If it doesn't serve patients well, patients should look no further than the ones running the show.

At the end of the day I don't care why it is that way. If it puts me into a situation where my employer believes I don't deserve respect as a human being let alone a nurse, then I don't need to be there. I treat others with respect and dignity and I expect the same in return. I do know something about patients and patient care and I expect that to matter. If it doesn't matter...again, I don't need to be there.

pandora1212 · Feb 12, 2021

9 hours ago, Susie2310 said:

What I have seen in the last 10 years is that there are many more newer/less experienced nurses practicing in acute care, some of whom I do not observe to be even particularly competent let alone experts in patient care, and fewer highly competent, experienced nurses. I remember years back when there were far more experienced nurses working in acute care, and the nurses I remember were excellent nurses who treated patients and their family members respectfully and considerately. Also, in the last 20 or so years there have been changes in nursing education I.e. clinical preparation of nursing students.

What changes have been made in terms of clinical preparation of students?

I have heard from new nurses, older nurses, and NPs alike that a huge portion of nursing skills and education happens post graduation on the job. Do you think that part of the reason there is a decline in skill is that there just isn't the time/patience/care put into training new grads on the job?

pandora1212 · Feb 12, 2021

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

If it doesn't matter...again, I don't need to be there.

You mentioned that you're moving on to plan B. What is your plan B?

I assume that the intense pressure to be as efficient as possible is more likely happening in hospitals. Are you moving to a clinic, private practice, or something else?

Do you see any sort of solution to these issues at any level, nursing or systemic? Do other healthcare professionals feel as frustrated with pressure from upper and middle management, or is the burden heavier on nurses because they are kind of the worker bees of a healthcare facility?

TheMoonisMyLantern, ADN, LPN, RN · Feb 13, 2021

It's not just acute care that this pressure to do less with more, it's present in almost every facet of our healthcare system. We turned healthcare into a business in this country and there are consequences for running things that way. Even in hospice one of the specialties one would think would be more altruistic, companies stretch their nurses to their limits taking on terminally ill patients to get more reimbursement from the Medicare hospice benefit.

Many of us love nursing even though we may sound negative but as previous posters have elaborated, we are given tremendous responsibility with very little say over how our day goes. Add to that, that we see human suffering every single day, sometimes that suffering is extreme whether it's physical or emotional, after a while carrying those experiences around with you can get heavy. Now, during the pandemic things are even crazier than they've ever been both with the suffering and death we've seen and with how we're being micromanaged by administration. Don't let people's negativity scare you off, but just know many of us are too beaten down to inspire every nursing student that comes along.

JKL33 · Feb 13, 2021

13 hours ago, pandora1212 said:

Do other healthcare professionals feel as frustrated with pressure from upper and middle management, or is the burden heavier on nurses because they are kind of the worker bees of a healthcare facility?

I would think everyone is under certain degrees of pressure. For example, it isn't unusual even in decent-sized places for a respiratory therapist to be responsible for more than one unit, or for two of them to cover very large in-hospital territories between the two of them. I've been amazed that some cover one area "plus the ED" and I have no idea how it's even possible.

But...because because our work dovetails or overlaps with all aspects of patient care, we do seem to be the group whose work ends up being meddled with from so many different angles. Also there are a lot of us so it seems we are a group that others are interested in controlling and corralling. Then there is the fact that we don't individually bill for our services; there isn't a separate charge for nursing care. We're rolled into the general fees of the hospital room (that's putting it simply but the bottom line is that the hospital does not bill patients individually for our services).

13 hours ago, pandora1212 said:

Do you see any sort of solution to these issues at any level, nursing or systemic?

I know various efforts have been made but they seem to quickly become compromised when some other group sees a way to use them to their advantage. The push for BSN entry level, various workplace nursing councils, clinical ladders, Magnet recognition, nurses in executive positions....many, many ideas have been advanced that have positive potential, but they are quickly co-opted by nursing employers for their own uses and purposes. So far I can't see that any of it has taken us where we like to think we're going.

CheesePotato, BSN, RN · Feb 13, 2021

13 hours ago, pandora1212 said:

What changes have been made in terms of clinical preparation of students?

I have heard from new nurses, older nurses, and NPs alike that a huge portion of nursing skills and education happens post graduation on the job. Do you think that part of the reason there is a decline in skill is that there just isn't the time/patience/care put into training new grads on the job?

Greetings, Pandora1212--

I have been browsing over everything that was written and where I agree with a lot of the frustration expressed by others on this thread regarding the conditions of healthcare, the change of healthcare to "just another business", the conditions of nursing employment, etc, I wanted to take a minute to chime in on some other points.

Let's start with your questions above. Much of what changed in nursing education started when nursing education evolved from in person to online. Now, quick history lesson: once upon a time, nursing was a diploma/work study situation where lil' nurselets would essentially live in dormitories and work at the bedside to accomplish their education. These programs gave way to the more didactic approach of college coursework with clinical built in (ADN), and then further evolved to the BSN and beyond today. Please bear in mind...this is crazy watered down.

But then the internet happened and suddenly folks did not have to do all of their classwork in an actual classroom. Suddenly the teachers some students were working with had never met their students face to face. And where that shouldn't matter--it does. Many programs have a cross-over of clinical and classroom instructors and losing that in an online program changes things.

To complicate matters: the Covids. <--need I say more?

What hasn't changed--I don't care where you go to school or what your clinical was like--a new grad has a lot to learn when they get to the bedside. But this is the way of medicine. The coursework essentially exists (along with licensure testing) to show you are a safe and competent provider on paper. That's it.

But how could you know everything about everything? You can't! And that is 100% normal and expected. There is absolutely no way to expose a student to everything that medicine has to offer. And so residency programs and orientations came about as away to supplement what new grads were not able to get during school and help them build the rest of their organization skills as well as gain knowledge of policy and the like. Not to mention that it's just nice to have someone to bounce an idea off of. I digress.

So what changed? Corporate healthcare. Increased ratios plus decreased staffing plus increased demand for orientees to be ready sooner = the bag of cats you have today. And sadly that means that preceptors have more work to do to get some new grads up and running but they also do not have the time, energy, or reimbursement to do so. See the problem?

I do not want to make you afraid of being a nurse or nervous of it. But I want to give you the gift of reality. Nursing is first and foremost a job and it is rife with issues (Like others posted). And there are days you hate every waking minute of it and there are days that it is pretty darn awesome. Just like any other job.

And as far as the "mean girl = nurses" meme--I have never laughed so hard in my life when I saw that on tiktok. I love it! Because yeah--I was called "mean" in school--because I took BS from no one. I didn't care what others thought of how I dressed or defined success or who I dated. I was opinionated and stubborn and knew what I wanted in life--you know--everything we as a society teach little girls not to be. So I was a "mean girl"....but my bills are paid and my family is provided for--so I think I'm doin' alright.

As for the nurse who came up to you all......::sigh:: Somebody needed a !@#$ Snickers.

I admit that I also talk to the nursing students about nursing in a way that may make them uncomfortable. But it is not to tell them not to be a nurse--it is to ask them "Why nursing?". Mostly it's curiosity. I always love finding out what draws people to do different things. The rest is to find out what they think nursing is.

And I have to say, there is some truth to what you hear: it's XYZ ugly, but it's worth it. In a way that's the nursing version of the relationship status: It's complicated.

Boy howdy is it complicated. For every story I can give you of some administrative nonsense or shouting doctor or "interesting" family or painful, traumatic event--I can give you a story of holding a scared first time mother's hand as she gives birth--of comforting the dying--of an ICU patient coming back to the unit looking to find their nursing team to say thank you--of singing a patient to sleep in the operating room--of an intubated patient remembering my voice and saying it made them feel safe (greatest complement ever btw). Nursing (medicine in general) gives us a front row seat to the theater of life, filled with drama and comedy. So few other jobs can be quite so polarizing all in the course of five minutes. Nursing is a ceaseless dichotomy: fueled by passion and monetary gain, triumph and loss, incredible highs and breathtaking lows.

So I urge you: Find what you are passionate about. Forge your own path. Take care of yourself. And let everything else be water off a duck's back.

Regards,

~~CP~~

Guest856929 · Feb 13, 2021

You choose to focus on what you want to see, read, and hear.

pandora1212 · Feb 13, 2021

14 hours ago, CheesePotato said:

So I urge you: Find what you are passionate about. Forge your own path. Take care of yourself. And let everything else be water off a duck's back.

I so appreciate your reply. I think this is exactly what I needed to hear.

guest464345 · Feb 14, 2021

On 2/10/2021 at 1:10 PM, pandora1212 said:

Nursing will be a career change for me, I worked previously as a social worker. It was a lot of complaining there too - not enough funding, heavy caseloads, emotionally heavy work - but at the end of the day there was always a "we are here to support each other and our work is important" sort of sentiment. I guess I'm wondering if that sort of comradery and support exists within nursing?

I was an LCSW before I became a nurse. Overall, I'd rather be a nurse - mostly because of the pay, even though I've lately worked in the lowest-paid areas of nursing (public health, schools).

Nonetheless, you're in for a weird transition. Hospital nursing is a blue collar job, regardless of what they tell you in school. That was a big change, coming from social work. I mean sure, as I social worker I was often underpaid and disrespected, but generally no one was ***ing at me for punching in 90 seconds late, or telling me color clothes to wear, or insisting that I repeat some kind of canned script in sessions with my clients. On hospital units, especially as a new grad, it's a bit of a shock because your coworkers and managers (not just the patients/clients) don't always treat you respectfully like an adult.

Although I did suicide risk assessments for a couple years as a social worker, even then I never felt the weight of responsibility you carry in nursing -the constant worry of missing something, or doing or failing to do something that might kill someone.

So, hospital nursing often has a low level of autonomy - you have no control over your workload, little control over your schedule, and you literally need to check in with someone before you can eat or pee - and yet a very high level of responsibility. Nurses often adapt by becoming a bit harsh.

The camaraderie you're seeking does exist in some places, but it varies a lot by unit and manager. On the whole, I'd say nursing work culture is more likely to require you to prove yourself before you experience that mutual support - while social workers more often default to coworker-support mode.

**CommunityRNBSN, BSN, RN** · Feb 14, 2021

On 2/10/2021 at 3:10 PM, pandora1212 said:

I get that, but the extent of negativity I have seen is pretty shocking. I mean, walking up to a group of students and telling them to quit is pretty extreme no matter how rough of a day it's been.

Nursing will be a career change for me, I worked previously as a social worker. It was a lot of complaining there too - not enough funding, heavy caseloads, emotionally heavy work - but at the end of the day there was always a "we are here to support each other and our work is important" sort of sentiment. I guess I'm wondering if that sort of comradery and support exists within nursing?

I will echo what somebody else has said. I work outpatient but many of them problems described here (being asked to do more and more while your resources dwindle) applies in my setting too. I have had no trouble with mean nurses at all (I've never even met one since I graduated nursing school— the only mean nurses I’ve encountered were the ones who worked the floor and did NOT want students back when I was in school) and there is absolutely camaraderie, but that can only take you so far when you’re overwhelmed.

My previous career was as a schoolteacher. Some of the problems are the same— Management comes up with “new initiatives” that will have zero impact on patient care / student learning, but will now take up hours of your time.

vintagegal, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · Feb 14, 2021

Nursing 101: therapeutic communication. Encourage expression of feelings. Everyone needs to vent. Often we look for solutions to our problems by venting and sharing negativity. However we already know the solution, and if you are a good therapeutic communicator, you can get the individual to realize that through validation and expression. For me, I switched jobs, kicked my ex to the curb, spent more time aligning my goals and dreams. Nursing wasn’t the problem. I was just so caught up in being a nurse that I forgot I am so much more than that. As for ‘mean girls are nurses’ it’s 2021 let’s not forget the dangers of assumption, generalization, and stereotyping. In closing, Life is what you make it. Just for laughs I once told someone, “when life gives you lemons you make lemonade” to which a gruff response I got was “or I can squeeze the lemons in my eyes, and take my punishment now”. I laughed, then their expression cracked and they laughed, and then we were laughing and life didn’t seem so bad at that moment.

PsychNurse24, BSN, RN · Feb 14, 2021

On 2/9/2021 at 8:35 PM, pandora1212 said:

I’m a second degree, second semester nursing student and I’m feeling really discouraged. Nearly everything I see online about nurses and nursing is negative. From the “all mean girls become nurses” trope to endless comments on silly tiktoks from nurses telling students to “quit while they can” and talking about how much they hate their jobs.

One of the clinical groups in my program even had a nurse walk up to their group at lunch time and tell them it’s not worth it and they shouldn’t become nurses. What the **** is up?

I know burnout is real, especially right now. But should I be as terrified as I am to enter the field in 10 short months? I’m really concerned that I won’t have supportive professional relationships to help me succeed as a new grad nurse.

I wish I could tell you that you will have supportive colleagues everywhere in nursing. Unfortunately, I don’t think you will. As both a nursing student and new grad nurse I would say the support fit a bell curve model. Most of the nurses were neutral and did not really help but were not actively mean either. Then there were a few nurses who were horrible and a few who were supportive mentors. Management also varied. As a new grad on a surgical floor I was assigned a mentor, finally, and told that no one wanted to be a mentor. I must say she was horrible. She rolled her eyes at me when I asked her questions and announced to every patient that I was a new grad and embarrassed me frequently in front of patients. I put up with it for a while thinking that I had to fit in. Finally I was fed up and gave feedback to my manager. I was promptly given a new mentor who was much better. When I moved to night shift, which was the shift I had been hired for, I had another mentor for my final two months. She was wonderful. Interestingly enough, she was a travel nurse, because they still couldn’t find mentors. But she was the best thing that ever happened to me because she taught me so much and helped me with my self-confidence. And our night shift team was supportive. We worked very hard but had fun too. I guess after all that what I mean to say is you will have good experiences and bad experiences. Overall, in the last decade, I have had many more good experiences and I love Nursing. As a post script, I try to mentor student nurses as much as possible. I do that because I want them to have a safe training environment where they can ask questions and learn as much as possible while being treated with respect. I think most of us love nursing and I wish you luck!!