It's like family members automatically assume nursing homes are out to harm their family members. Do they understand the hardwork and dedication it takes to caring for their loved ones?? I think they think it's easy. There are those family members that are thankful. But the ones that are negative and ANNOYING take the cake.
If your 80 something year old mother falls out of the bed, how is that the facility fault??
If your 96 year old mother dies, how is that the facility fault?
If your 80 something year old wife is treated like everyone else, how is the nurse racist?
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
nurses in acute care wouldn't subject themselves to such obnoxious, outrageous behavior and neither should we.
nurses in acute care deal with the same selfish, obnoxious, entitled, dysfunctional and often demented behaviors as you do, only we're told to "suck it up and deal" because "they're stressed out that their loved one is acutely ill."
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
To wherehastimegone (sorry, tried to include oringinal post, didn't work right)
Do you think that if someone is a nurse they aren't a family member? That they don't know that the death of a loved one is an excruciatingly difficult time for people?? Your "analysis" of nurses is outrageous. No, they don't reflect callousness or indifference to pain. No, they don't have to "fake compassion". From what I've seen, most nurses who feel themselves burning out come here and write soul-searching posts about what they should do, not asking for some acting tips to better fool people.
Since nerdtonurse became understandably exasperated, let me try to give you an idea of why she posted that. She did not literally mean families should be shown a video like that. Since she is compassionate, she knows what is in store for them and their families and would like to spare them that pain when the outcome cannot be changed. The "video" is symbolic of the gritty realities of end-of-life care.
I think a lot of this could be made easier with educated patients and family members. Unfortunately, as end-of-life counseling has been made a political football ("death panels", anyone? :angryfire ) we aren't going to be able to make much headway here. I know we've wandered off topic, a bit, but this is such an emotional issue . . .
to wherehastimegone (sorry, tried to include oringinal post, didn't work right)
do you think that if someone is a nurse they aren't a family member? that they don't know that the death of a loved one is an excruciatingly difficult time for people?? your "analysis" of nurses is outrageous. no, they don't reflect callousness or indifference to pain. no, they don't have to "fake compassion". from what i've seen, most nurses who feel themselves burning out come here and write soul-searching posts about what they should do, not asking for some acting tips to better fool people.
since nerdtonurse became understandably exasperated, let me try to give you an idea of why she posted that. she did not literally mean families should be shown a video like that. since she is compassionate, she knows what is in store for them and their families and would like to spare them that pain when the outcome cannot be changed. the "video" is symbolic of the gritty realities of end-of-life care.
i think a lot of this could be made easier with educated patients and family members. unfortunately, as end-of-life counseling has been made a political football ("death panels", anyone? :angryfire ) we aren't going to be able to make much headway here. i know we've wandered off topic, a bit, but this is such an emotional issue . . .
of course i'm aware that nurses are family members and that they have had their own personal experiences with death and loss. at no point was i analysing all nurses. the reality is that within the work setting, be it the hospital, acute care or hospice when you deal with something every day you see it very differently than you would if you only dealt with it on occasion or not at all. this isn't a bad thing...you have to separate yourself to some degree, you can't feel all the emotions of your patients and families or it would wear you down and burn you out. separating can lead to varying levels of distance, and when the distance gets to great, it can start to alter perspective. in this thread of many nurses venting about how difficult, unreasonable and obnoxious families can be, my point was just to say lets not forget that there are reasons why people act the way they do...their intent is not to cause their family member further suffering or to torture them. it really seemed there was not a lot of recognition or understanding of why it might be difficult for families not be able to just say "he's old, he's sick, time to let him die."
and having spent considerable time working in a hospital and visiting my grandparents for a combined 14 months in hospital/hospice and frequent visits to an ltc...the reality is that there are nurses out there who do not ooze compassion. they may be compassionate people at heart, they have dealt with their own pain and loss but they are so separated from that at work that it really doesn't come across in the care they give their patients. chances are some of those nurses are on these boards.
for example when my grandfather was dying, my grandmother was beside herself. they had been married 50+ years, he was her life, they did everything together. she is physically handicapped so had relied on him for everything. she truly didn't know how she could live without him and she had a very hard time letting go. she had to do it in her own time which i'm sure was longer than some of the staff would have wanted. the finality of him being gone was too much for her and sitting holding his hand even though he was unconscious was her way of hanging on a little longer as she couldn't imagine life without him. you can call her selfish or whatever but she was engulfed in grief and it took her time to be able to agree to stop certain measures that were keeping him alive. one nurse when speaking to my grandmother would ask her questions referring to my grandfather as 'the body'. as in "have you decided what you are going to do with the body". this upset my grandmother to no end as this was still her much beloved husband lying next to her, still a person deserving of dignity no matter how near the end he was. to me this nurse's actions reflected callousness and an indifference to her pain. you may disagree but that is truly how it came across. she may be a compassionate person, she may have dealt with pain and death in her life but it didn't come through in her nursing. for all i know she posts on this board and may be one of the people in this thread posting about how difficult families can be. i'm sure she felt that way about my grandmother.
i get that people are venting...and maybe it is too personal for me because i've dealt with it recently. there were just many posts that came across as lacking understanding of why it is such a difficult time for families...be it guilt, co-dependence, denial, ignorance, or whatever. it is a charged issue for sure.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
you said it yourself, wherehastimegone. this is a vent thread. that means it's for venting, and not for someone to jump on a soap box in order to "demonstrate" now much more compassionate she is than those who are venting and tell them how they ought to think/feel/behave/post. i'm sorry your grandmother had a rough time with her husband's death, but perhaps you ought to start your own thread for that, and leave the venting alone.
Specializes in M/S, MICU, CVICU, SICU, ER, Trauma, NICU.
nurses in acute care deal with the same selfish, obnoxious, entitled, dysfunctional and often demented behaviors as you do, only we're told to "suck it up and deal" because "they're stressed out that their loved one is acutely ill."
not this acute care nurse. i draw lines very quickly.
i once had a dad coming at me, just about ready to kill someone when he was upset with a situation that occurred before his child came to the recovery room, the first thing i did was put up a stop sign and say, "sir, i don't know you. you don't know me. i don't know what occurred before you got here, but i will try my very best to find out. but for now, since we don't know each other too well...let's start off on the right foot with proper introductions and nice, quiet voices. i am here to help, but i can't allow you to hurt me or yell at me."
he calmed down immediately.
nurses, we don't need to put up with belligerent behavior. set limits immediately, with the utmost professionalism.
i do not suck up nor tolerate ill behavior. even if it takes walking away.
then if they start to threaten, i will call the security/the police and have them escorted out in handcuffs, if need be. my job and reputation is important, but my sense of self and sense of respect for myself is even more important--no manager, no boss, no vp, no press gainey score is going to take that away.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
of course i'm aware that nurses are family members and that they have had their own personal experiences with death and loss. at no point was i analysing all nurses. the reality is that within the work setting, be it the hospital, acute care or hospice when you deal with something every day you see it very differently than you would if you only dealt with it on occasion or not at all. this isn't a bad thing...you have to separate yourself to some degree, you can't feel all the emotions of your patients and families or it would wear you down and burn you out. separating can lead to varying levels of distance, and when the distance gets to great, it can start to alter perspective. in this thread of many nurses venting about how difficult, unreasonable and obnoxious families can be, my point was just to say lets not forget that there are reasons why people act the way they do...their intent is not to cause their family member further suffering or to torture them. it really seemed there was not a lot of recognition or understanding of why it might be difficult for families not be able to just say "he's old, he's sick, time to let him die."
and having spent considerable time working in a hospital and visiting my grandparents for a combined 14 months in hospital/hospice and frequent visits to an ltc...the reality is that there are nurses out there who do not ooze compassion. they may be compassionate people at heart, they have dealt with their own pain and loss but they are so separated from that at work that it really doesn't come across in the care they give their patients. chances are some of those nurses are on these boards.
for example when my grandfather was dying, my grandmother was beside herself. they had been married 50+ years, he was her life, they did everything together. she is physically handicapped so had relied on him for everything. she truly didn't know how she could live without him and she had a very hard time letting go. she had to do it in her own time which i'm sure was longer than some of the staff would have wanted. the finality of him being gone was too much for her and sitting holding his hand even though he was unconscious was her way of hanging on a little longer as she couldn't imagine life without him. you can call her selfish or whatever but she was engulfed in grief and it took her time to be able to agree to stop certain measures that were keeping him alive. one nurse when speaking to my grandmother would ask her questions referring to my grandfather as 'the body'. as in "have you decided what you are going to do with the body". this upset my grandmother to no end as this was still her much beloved husband lying next to her, still a person deserving of dignity no matter how near the end he was. to me this nurse's actions reflected callousness and an indifference to her pain. you may disagree but that is truly how it came across. she may be a compassionate person, she may have dealt with pain and death in her life but it didn't come through in her nursing. for all i know she posts on this board and may be one of the people in this thread posting about how difficult families can be. i'm sure she felt that way about my grandmother.
i get that people are venting...and maybe it is too personal for me because i've dealt with it recently. there were just many posts that came across as lacking understanding of why it is such a difficult time for families...be it guilt, co-dependence, denial, ignorance, or whatever. it is a charged issue for sure.
i'm sorry your grandmother was treated that way. each nurse deals with the "professional detachment" issue in his or her own way. i believe the cold-hearted nurse is the exception, not the rule. it seemed to me that you were making generalizations. however, you can take heart in knowing that the specialty of hospice/palliative care is burgeoning and changing many people's experience of death and helping families through the grieving process for the better. even though i don't work in hospice myself, we all can learn from reading and learning about their experiences.
you said it yourself, wherehastimegone. this is a vent thread. that means it's for venting, and not for someone to jump on a soap box in order to "demonstrate" now much more compassionate she is than those who are venting and tell them how they ought to think/feel/behave/post. i'm sorry your grandmother had a rough time with her husband's death, but perhaps you ought to start your own thread for that, and leave the venting alone.
i don't spend a lot of time on these boards so i am not fully aware of the dynamics / rules regarding what to post where so wasn't aware i shouldn't respond in a vent thread.
i think the idea of join the vent or leave makes sense if this was a closed door vent but this is a public open forum that anyone can read. i imagine seeing as posts come up in google searches that quite a few non nurses come to the boards to look for information. i guess the anonymity is what makes the boards possible but it also means that comments made reflect the thoughts and feelings of 'nurses' rather than individuals. i guess i read this thread more from the perspective of a family member than that of a nurse and that is why i was caught off guard and a bit shocked by some of the comments of nurses and how they feel about families. i have no soapbox or agenda to demonstrate any superiority, i just came across the thread and was taken aback by some of the things said and responded in a reactionary way.
i apologize for taking the thread off topic. i have no on topic vent so i will step out.
Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
The most difficult people to deal with IMHO are the ones starring in their "Me show-" all me,all of the time. We all realize how difficult it is to let go of someone you love but we also know that awful things are happening in most of the other rooms down the hall. It can be difficult to deal with someone who is in the throes of hysterics over the "sudden" death of their 98 yr old mother and threatening lawsuits left and right-especially when you are also caring for a young end stage Huntington's disease resident with 2 high school age children.To me death is not always a tragedy-it's celebration especially when someone has lived a long life full of love.... We also have to juggle the needs of the entire unit and many loved ones don't want to accept that. We have very few private rooms where I work-I can't always let a family have a wake in the room-I have to consider the roomate-and the rest of the residents need their meds.treatments,meals etc. Life does go on...
nurses in acute care deal with the same selfish, obnoxious, entitled, dysfunctional and often demented behaviors as you do, only we're told to "suck it up and deal" because "they're stressed out that their loved one is acutely ill."
true..those same families start off in the acute setting and are transfered to the ltc with the patient. one big difference is that you have security and other support staff.
I guess I read this thread more from the perspective of a family member than that of a nurse and that is why I was caught off guard and a bit shocked by some of the comments of nurses and how they feel about families.
Nurses are family members too. However, this site IS called allNURSES.com, not allfamilymembers.com. That right there should give a clue as to the focus of this forum.
Back to the topic at hand; some other annoying family member types:
The Comedian: This is the guy/gal who is always cracking a joke, they think they are hilarious, and if you don't laugh at their stupid jokes (as if you haven't heard them all a million times), then they make some snide comment about how the nurse has no sense of humor.
The Attention Seeker: This person likes to talk about their own ailments/illnesses/medication regimens, so the focus is on them and not the loved one in the hospital bed.
The Family Member with Broken Arms: This person plops down in a chair and turns on the TV, and every time Granny needs a sip of water or a pillow fluffed, they come out into the hallway and hunt down the nurse to do it.
The Consumer Advocate: This person's priorities are out of order. As you are preparing the patient for open heart surgery scheduled for the next morning, the Consumer Advocate draws attention to 2cm in diameter mustard stain on the patient's gown and points it out as evidence of poor customer service.
The Alarmist family member must be the guy/gal that instead of putting a call light on, finds you gowning up outside an isolation room and says "Mom needs the bathroom - quickly!"
Same family member always goes directly to the nurses station, finds you on the phone, drums their fingers on the counter, waits five minutes for you to finish the call and then announces Mom needs the bathroom again. So you motion to the CNA who has been charting down the hall the whole time "Mom" needs the bathroom. When you ask Alarmist Family Member again why they don't put the call light on they reply "Well I think this is quicker"
They will also tell you to take Mom to the bathroom when you walk in the room to hang their roommates IV.
Ruby Vee, BSN
17 Articles; 14,051 Posts
nurses in acute care deal with the same selfish, obnoxious, entitled, dysfunctional and often demented behaviors as you do, only we're told to "suck it up and deal" because "they're stressed out that their loved one is acutely ill."