Death work and talking to the dead

[talaxandra]

Four years ago I started a thread in the Neuro ICU nurses' forum about nurses speaking to the brain dead (you can view it here). I researched the topic for a Masters, and found the process really rewarding; my thinking on the topic was certainly informed by the responses of nurses to the thread, and I'm delighted that members still post on it from time to time.

I'm now building on that research by investigating why funeral industry workers and health care providers, particularly nurses, who talk to their patients while performing death work do so.

I'm conducting the research through a combination of interviews and written narratives, and if anyone's interested in participating or learning more I'd love to hear from you, just IM me.

I've started this thread, though, to see what you all think about the practice. Do you do it? Do your colleagues? Have you seen doctors or orderlies or anyone else do it? Do you deliberately not talk? Anything anyone think is interesting or routine about death work - I want to hear it!

[northshore08]

Wow. I never thought of what I do while I am preparing a body. Yes, I do talk to them if I am alone, but not if a colleague or coworker is there, and not if the family is present.

Why do I do it? I guess if there is any interdimensional link at the time of death, I would like for a leaving soul to be reassured. I also believe we do not always know when the hearing stops.

When my dad died, I was on the phone with Mom and told her to hold him and talk to him (I think he had been dead for a little while, maybe 5-10 minutes or so.) That was more for her, since it would be the last time she would get to touch him and talk to him. I don't think she understood, but when I am present with families I make sure they understand that. :redpinkhe

[Kunzieo]

I talk to the patient, but not out loud.

That sounded crazy, didn't it.

As I'm removing and washing and arranging, I kind of talk like I would with any patient...but not out loud. I worked nights, so I suppose that made a difference, as co-workers would have been more likely to hear me.

In my head I am saying "Ok, Florence, I'm gonna take out that IV now, oh, your poor hand is so bruised, thank goodness this is coming out...ok, gonna fluff your hair now, maybe we should wash it with a shower cap quick, your daughter will be here in about an hour..."

Stuff like that. Occasionally I think about the person and their family, if I have know them, but often do not get the opportunity on nights. I'm also making a list of everything I need to do for the room...get chairs, take out trash, get tissue box, re-make bed, etc.

I usually feel a solemnity, almost a heaviness. Not necessarily sadness, just a weight in the air. Probably all in my head.

I also think about death in general, different deaths I've seen, how I would like my death, how I imagine my parents' deaths will go...

I'm not really naturally chatty, but I think chatting in my head helps me feel better, like this is still a person, not just a lump of skin and stuff...even though that's all it is now...especially if the family has not been in yet.

[Virgo_RN, BSN, RN]

I've done it. I've spoken aloud to a deceased patient. I've done it with another staff member present. I'll probably do it again. I don't think it's weird at all. I think it respects their human dignity, even in death.

[Dixielee, BSN, RN]

I've done it. I've spoken aloud to a deceased patient. I've done it with another staff member present. I'll probably do it again. I don't think it's weird at all. I think it respects their human dignity, even in death.

I, too have regularly spoken to the dead, sending them home with good thoughts for them, and remembering those left behind. I have my late husbands picture as my wallpaper on the computer, and tell him good night as I sign off. Am I wierd? Probably, but that is just what works for me.

[DDRN4me]

I've done it. I've spoken aloud to a deceased patient. I've done it with another staff member present. I'll probably do it again. I don't think it's weird at all. I think it respects their human dignity, even in death.

I do. I think that there is still a "human connection" and respect that. I also say goodbye to deceased family and friends at their wakes .

Maybe its because i believe that they hear and know what I am saying >>?

[Jo Dirt]

I don't talk to the dead. I try to get away from them as soon as I can. The way I see it, when you're gone, you're gone. All thoughts perish, no more work and toil and worry, just sleep.

And I don't like to look at dead people. I didn't even look at my father after he was dead. When a patient dies on my hall, I sometimes ask another nurse to go in. Other times I will try to avoid looking at their eyes.

Am I bad for being honest?

[-MNC_RN-]

I've talked to the dead too... mostly out of habit, I think, like when I would be carting them off to the morgue and would say, "OK, a little bump here..." when getting off the elevator.

I would never talk to brain dead patients, however, because we have had instances where the families have been confused by this: "You said he was 'dead'. If you're talking to him, he must not be dead!" (Seriously. We even had one family withdraw donation consent because of this. And no amount of teaching convinced them otherwise.)

[deeDawntee, RN]

I definitely talk to the dead (and dying), both out loud and in my head. I do believe that our communication gets through. My nursing practice is based on connecting. Even when I have vented and sedated patients, I believe a soul to soul connection is essential to why I am a nurse. Relationship is what it is all about. So, for me that connection does not end or really change when someone has died. I still feel and honor the relationship that I have intentionally established when I have taken on that person as my patient.

For a dead patient, I talk about what I have seen at the end of that patient's life. I tell them how brave they are, what a great job they did raising their kids and grandkids (if that is true...). Or, I will say that I know they faced some huge challenges in this lifetime, that their struggle is over now...etc

[talaxandra]

Am I bad for being honest?

Not at all - I think that this is a difficult subject to be honest about, and thank everyone who's participated thus far for their contributions.

It sounds like, for those who do talk to their dead patients (aloud, silently, with or without company) as though respect for the patient is a significant part of why. This isn't to say that nurses who don't speak don't respect their patients, just that they don't feel the need to express this through talking.

What do you all think?

[BlueRidgeHomeRN]

. i try to get away from them as soon as i can. ......... other times i will try to avoid looking at their eyes.

am i bad for being honest?

nothing bad about believing what you believe.

i do wonder, though, if your discomfort with the dead is linked to your view of death.

you understandably don't want to be reminded that "nothing" will someday happen to you, too.

i do talk to the recently dead...think there may be a little overlap between "here" and "there". not scary to me--the transport container is still here, but the person has gone on. along with kubler-ross, i believe there is no such thing as "death", only a tranformation.

[leslie :-D]

i do speak to those who have died.

as i'm cleaning them up, i let them know what i'm doing.

i also remind them that while they have transitioned to a greater place, their loved ones are going to miss them, and could they please keep an eye on them?

ironically, i have always done poorly at chit-chat, small talk.

yet with the dead, i'm never at a loss of words. :)

leslie