Curious to know why Jahi thread was closed?

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  • by RNIBCLC
    Specializes in Maternity.

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smartnurse1982

1,775 Posts

Obviously she is NOT dead....She is in some type of PVS.

Be careful what you say...i thought the EXACT same thing and i got racked over by ALLnurses.

I want to say it is a gray area.

If i lived in the UK i do know half of my pts would be declared brain dead.

I really do not know what to think.

Be careful what you say...i thought the EXACT same thing and i got racked over by ALLnurses.

I want to say it is a gray area.

If i lived in the UK i do know half of my pts would be declared brain dead.

I really do not know what to think.

There were 3 (or more) board certified neurologists who examined her a year ago. The exams included an mri which showed no structure, an eeg which showed no electrical activity, an apnea test which showed no attempt at breathing on her own, and a bedside test which included all sorts of testing including reflexes. She met every criteria for brain death. PVS patients do not meet that criteria. The girl is unfortunately dead!

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN

1 Article; 20,908 Posts

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Obviously she is NOT dead....She is in some type of PVS.

Sadly...yes she is. She fits no criteria for PVS and fits criteria for brain death. Her major organs are being artificially supported with food and oxygen. Her 14 year old heart can beat for quite some time.

Red Kryptonite

2,212 Posts

Specializes in hospice.
Sadly...yes she is. She fits no criteria for PVS and fits criteria for brain death. Her major organs are being artificially supported with food and oxygen. Her 14 year old heart can beat for quite some time.

And what a waste of it. Think of what that strong young heart could have done for a living person who needed it.

smartnurse1982

1,775 Posts

I'm not going to argue-I happen to believe there is a fate worse then death and she is living it. A year ago I believed she was dead. Her body would be showing more signs of decomp if she was truly brain dead. I think she is in PVS. The fact that we are still talking about her almost a year later is proof enough.

As for the people who say "I would never..." and "if it was my mother..." .No-one truly KNOWS. Over the years I've known several people in the medical field who when a devastating injury or illness struck a loved one they made choices that were in direct opposition with the opinions they espoused for years regarding futile care.

I will not lie,it all confuses me.

People say that her heart could keep pumping because she is on a vent,but i wonder do some realize that the heart could stop despite artificial ventilation?

Something does not connect.

smartnurse1982

1,775 Posts

I was wondering when someone would start screaming racism.

According to every relatively recent article, Jahi was in a hospital in NJ until a month or two ago.

Jahi is receiving home care with Pdn.

I do not know where the racism remarks come from,but i do see boatloads of anti-religion folks clowning Jahi's family.

Oddly enough,i blame Fox news for that one for comparing it to death panels.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN

5,879 Posts

I will not lie,it all confuses me.

People say that her heart could keep pumping because she is on a vent,but i wonder do some realize that the heart could stop despite artificial ventilation?

Something does not connect.

The heart continues to pump because it is being furnished with oxygen rich blood by the ventilator.

What do you mean by "something does not connect"?

This all makes perfect sense. If you take Jahi off the ventilator, her heart will stop beating because she will not be able to breathe.

Completely apart from this, if she suffers a lethal infection, such as a virulent pneumonia, or goes into kidney failure, or any other number of maladies not related to her lack of brain function, her heart could eventually stop beating. What is your point?

Horseshoe, BSN, RN

5,879 Posts

Be careful what you say...i thought the EXACT same thing and i got racked over by ALLnurses.

I want to say it is a gray area.

If i lived in the UK i do know half of my pts would be declared brain dead.

I really do not know what to think.

No, it is absolutely NOT a gray area. There are absolute, non-negotiable standards for determining brain death. It' is not something which is taken lightly. One must meet the criteria for brain death for each and every one of these tests in order to be considered brain dead. All other possibilities for test failure must be excluded before brain death can be declared (such as brain swelling, being on drugs which depress the CNS, etc). Jahi was examined extensively and met the criteria in each of the tests. There was NO disagreement among any of the doctors who examined her and put her through the battery of tests which determine whether or not the brain is dead. There was no gray area.

This was posted before in another thread. It's really interesting. A brain dead child's body was kept artificially "alive"'for 20 years. Have a look at the autopsy photos of his brain. It is absolutely possible for a young, strong child's heart to keep beating while ventilated for a long time after brain death despite massive degeneration of the brain structures. http://hods.org/pdf/Long%20Survival%20Following%20Baterial%20Meningits-Associated%20Brain%20Destruction1.pdf

ETA: note that this child had non-purposeful muscular movements, even apparently spontaneous limb movements occasionally but no EEG activity, pupil/corneal reflexes or evidence of brain stem activity. He was also 24 years old when he died but did not go through puberty or grow, he remained only 100cm (4 yo height). Autopsy of the brain showed no identifiable normal structures and it was basically only mummified tissue. Very sad.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN

5,879 Posts

suga junkie, I knew of that case, but I'd never seen that report; those autopsy photos are very telling. This boy's family refused to take him off life support. I don't know what their rationale was, but clearly, this boy's brain was dead. Very striking what happens to brain tissue when it receives no blood flow.

Jahi had a test which showed that she also had NO blood flow to her brain. Imagine what happens to any other body part if it is denied blood flow. That tissue dies and once dead, it is irrevocably dead. Jahi is not simply brain damaged. She is NOT in a PVS, which looks very different than brain death. Her brain will someday resemble the brain in the autopsy referenced in the previous post because it hasn't had blood flow in almost one year. While the rest of her body is nourished with oxygen rich blood, it will resist decomposition, but her brain cannot do so, and as we saw with the MRI attorney Dolan posted which horrified anyone who knew what they were looking at, it's already happening.

I think it's easy to be so definite and sure when it isn't your baby girl in that bed. I would be interested to see how the adamant ones would behave under the same circumstances. I'm sure they wouldn't be standing at the foot of the bed screaming "you're definitely dead" at their child like they're doing on this thread. Attacking her mothers fashion choices is petty at best. I think if this type of thing happens to you coping any way you can is fair. There could be a million answers that no one is interested in because their minds are already made up. Sad in so many ways.

Red Kryptonite

2,212 Posts

Specializes in hospice.
Attacking her mothers fashion choices is petty at best. I think if this type of thing happens to you coping any way you can is fair.

You think milking strangers for sympathy money, and then spending it, not on your daughter's care, but on Michael Kors bags that most people can't afford, eating out at high end restaurants, and brazenly Instagramming the whole thing, while you live across the country from your other children who still need you, including a pregnant daugher, is fair?

Alrighty then.

I think it's easy to be so definite and sure when it isn't your baby girl in that bed. I would be interested to see how the adamant ones would behave under the same circumstances. I'm sure they wouldn't be standing at the foot of the bed screaming "you're definitely dead" at their child like they're doing on this thread.

No, I would be screaming, "Oh God,no!" But I know and accept that brain dead is DEAD. I might ask for a second opinion, but if that agreed, I would bury my daughter and mourn, not keep machines pumping her organs and a GoFundMe pumping sympathetic strangers.

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