Coworker quit/fired! Should we know what happened or not?

[UM Review RN]

Recently a longtime coworker nurse whom I greatly admired and respected quit without notice. Or she was terminated.

We don't know. But the rumors are flying.

It got me thinking: Do coworkers have a right to know why a beloved coworker is suddenly "no longer employed" at a facility?

I know that all facilities have a "no talk" rule. But should they?

Does a policy like that really stop the rumor mill? Or does it just make the stories wilder?

Answer the poll, then tell us what you think.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

Just because people talk doesn't mean someone's reason for termination should be public knowledge.

[Catsmeow]

I voted no.

The only exception I can think of would be in terms of educating the rest of the staff not to commit a certain error that the person in question got fired over, if it was over a particular mistake that can be pinpointed. That can be done without relating it to the person who left, however.

Cats

[MedSurgeMess]

Recently a coworker of mine-a nurse with less seniority-was let go due to fudging documentation and other goodies....And with our staffing issues, the charge cannot always check every bit of documentation or babysit every nurses actions, although the charge is 100% legally responsible for everyone on that particular unit/area behavior (at least in Indiana). I was told in private, and told to keep it 100% private, that she was let go and the nature, as I am one that was charge over her on more than one occasion. They told me so that if any legal litigation came of this, I would be able to have some knowledge instead of the WTF reaction I probably would have-yes, a couple of pts had bad outcomes that came to light lately and could be directly traced back to her, but that is another story.....And some nights with 14 of 32 pts due to staffing, you can't possibly know everything going on, regardless of how good you are, and I know that I am not that darned good. I think it is sad to even be in a position of worry for that reason....

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

And in that case, I think that our fears are warranted--everyone has a breaking point, after all. We've all seen, but rarely talk about, the nurse who's been targeted for speaking up, for being "too old," and the ones who management will pile more and more work on until they finally quit.

~AngieO

That was me......the nurse who got dumped on and dumped on until I finally couldn't take it for even ONE more day. I'll admit that I've got a mouth on me, and that I've done a lot of b****ing in the past about feeling overwhelmed; but not being particularly paranoid, I figured the 'targeting' was all in my head, and for over a year I tried to dismiss it.

Today, ironically, I went up to the hospital to collect the stuff from my locker, and the assistant department manager who has made my life so difficult at times with unreasonable assignments happened to be sitting at the table in the break room, eating her lunch..........and she didn't so much as look at me during the entire 15 minutes I was in there. It was as if I didn't even exist, despite the fact that I was chatting with two of my co-workers and had to pass within 2 feet of her to get to my locker!

Now THAT'S cold.........and something tells me my intuition was right all along, that she really did dislike me for some reason and wanted me gone. I fought it for a long time, did everything I knew how to try to get her to like me (or at least treat me like a competent professional), but she's been there for 25 years.......when push comes to shove, who do YOU think's gonna win? Frankly, I hated to give her the satisfaction, which was one of the reasons I hung in there as long as I did, but now I know how very right I was to do what I did. I could have stayed another three years and put myself through untold misery, and it wouldn't have changed her attitude toward me one bit........what's the use?

There's another nurse there, who's just a few years older than me, and who's been out even more than I have thanks to some chronic pancreatitis and lung problems; one day she asked to speak with me privately, and proceeded to tell me she felt she was being 'forced out'. Like me, she is constantly being hounded---especially by this one manager---for little mistakes, given crappy assignments, and subtly discouraged from seeking leadership positions or taking continuing education that might help her in a different position.

Even when she told me all this a few weeks ago, I didn't want to believe that some of us older nurses were being nudged toward the door........but now that I've had a chance to analyze things, I realize that we WERE being targeted. All of the leadership positions (charge nurses, committee heads etc.) are filled by nurses under 45, despite the fact that the managers themselves are all over 50. The best shifts and choicest assignments also usually go to the younger staff members. So what does management do with the older, more experienced nurses? We couldn't be fired, because we've done nothing to deserve it. We can't be let go due to age, because that's discrimination. But life can be made so unpleasant for us that we get disgusted and quit, or we get sick and quit, or we get hurt and quit.:angryfire

Sorry if this is starting to sound like a pity party, I don't mean for it to be, but the more I think about it, the more inevitable my resignation seems to have been........I really didn't have as much control over things as I thought I did. But you know, I don't suppose that really matters any more---I'm out of there now, and I'm not a bit sorry about it. In fact, over the past few days I've become downright relaxed, even if I don't know where my next house payment is coming from or even what sort of job I want. I can almost hear my nerves unkinking, my heart rate slowing, my blood pressure coming down........ahhhhhhhhhh...........

[button2cute]

Hello All,

I would like to say that HIPPA was develop for patient's rights for privacy due to the abuse by insurance companies, medical personnel and others seeking medical records of the patients. In addition, HIPPA has terminated the discussions of patient's medical illness and history in public places by the medical personnel. Therefore, HIPPA has been effective, decrease the exposure of medical history and illness of a patient and the violation of HIPPA will cost the individuals or companies or hospital a fee as well as other penalties.

Should the employees have rights and protection as the patients? Yes, employees have rights and privacy just like a patient. The Federal law protects the employee’s when they are terminated, suspended or place on probation. The employers such as a hospital, clinic, or the work place of a nurse, doctor or medical team (including the axillaries departments) are not allow to give out information for future employers. The law prevents any type of negative discussion of an ex-employee from obtaining another employer. Therefore, the Federal government are protecting the past employee history from future employers and a violation can be given to the employer for giving out information beyond the dates of employee.

Yes, I know there are violations that are hazards to the patients and to the person who is involve. Those violations will be to the next level of the chain command. The violation can reach the board of certification and the court system. Then you can read the nurse's quarterly new letters because they do not believe in privacy or rights of a nurse. Some states have numerous of people listed and feel to read them. If you feel you have the right to know about the employee than read your quarterly nursing news. Please make yourself comfortable as you read it, think of this would you treat this nurse fairly as a co-worker? How would you feel if your name appears on the quarterly nurse news letter? I know I would be embarrass, angry, mad, and violated.

Personally, I feel that is a violation of the rights and privacy a nurse and it is unacceptable. Until someone challenges it will remain for nurses to read. I believe by posting these violations it will cause prejudice against the violators in the future for employment and co-workers. For instance, if someone was using drugs from the hospital, reported to the BON, a suspension of license, rehabilitation, re-entry, continuous community out patient services, restriction of obtaining narcotics for patients, supervision on the floor, unannounced urinary testing, and lastly, if violated again than termination of licensure. Therefore, this person has to work extra hard for their right to work as a nurse again and to have another chance in their career.

In conclusion, the right to know of another's termination as well as voluntarily termination is not anyone's business. The employer should be given updates, improvement of critical thinking and clinical skills, and discussing the areas of concerns every two weeks. However, no one wants to attend a meeting on their time as well as on boring issues. Then again, everyone would show up for gossips, rumors and negativity against a coworker. This is totally wrong for anyone to contribute to negative. I understand some people would like to prevent the error the person had made and to learn through her mistake. In my opinion, the employer should had taken care of the problem way before it lead to a termination of an employee. Therefore, allow the ex employer deal with her problems and the departure from the employer to grieve with family or friends.

I hope I explained this issue clearly and precise for each person to understand the violators have rights just like patients.

Thanks....for the time,

[Antikigirl, ASN, RN]

I was in a facility where I was responsible for scheduleing and was in charge of many CNA's...talk about confidentiality...they didn't even tell me if one quit or was fired! LOL!

So in some respects, I would like to know that a quit/fire has occured if you are in a position that needs to know (not necessarily the reason for...just that it has occured). (I called one that was fired to come into work one time because I was not told...that was a waste of time and embarressing).

Also, one person was fired at another facility I worked in...reason...they were a secretary and copied all of our ssn and other information for idenity theft! No one was told till over 10 peoples idenities were used for large purchases and investigated by the police!

In that case..heck yes I want to know!!! I need to protect myself!!! Why in the world it took 10 people getting financially taken for to get the word out! I mean, she was charged by a court of law and went to jail for it right away...yet it took them 4 months to tell us all of our idenities were taken and more than likely used!

In another case, an employee stole narcotics and was fired..however I was under investigation because it was a CNA under my supervision (I didn't know if she quit or was fired or anything!) But since they couldn't tell me anything to do with her case...it just came up that I was being investigated for narcotic theft!!! ME?!?! Took a year before I found out what really happened and I was cleared. Since I was directly accused, why didn't I have the right to know for my own case which I was ready to fight for till the end!!!? Again, the employee was jailed and found guilty by a court of law...

So in certain situations, yes I think if other employees are at risk for things...it should be known...but only in very serious situations where a court of law has determined that a person commited a crime and certain employees or patients are at risk.

Hey...food for thought...if an employee is protected in this way...why aren't they protected from information online or in some annual publications about investigations or potential/real crimes commited? Ever read those mags by the BON that lists healthcare professionals that have DUII's, or investigation for sexual misconduct, or substance abuse??? What protects their rights there????? Those things scare the heck out of me!!!

[P_RN, ADN, RN]

Short and simple from me. No, it's no one's business except the one (s) involved. I've never been fired, but I have been made so uncomfortable that I resigned from one job years ago.

When I left due to my work injury you wouldn't believe the things I heard were said about me by my manager. I guess that meant she left someone else alone.

P

[hipab4hands]

No one has the right to know why an employee has left.

I've been on medical leave for several months, due to a job related illness. I'm going to be laid off in a few weeks, because there is no other positions available that I can transfer to ( at least per management).

I've told my best friend , who works in my unit, that she can tell my co workers that I'm on medical leave, but not to discuss anything else beyond that.

So far, it's work and the rumor mill has not run amok.

[ClaireMacl]

Ok, I'm not from the US and not really familiar with HIPPA, but I believe we have the same regulations more or less.

My slant on the story and why I voted yes (in part) to should we be told is... in the past two months, we had two senior nurses on disciplinary procedures and one that just vanished completely! We used to be a very very close ED who all went out together in the evenings after shifts for drinks, that is no more.

Through the "rumour mill" we found out that the one who vanished was told that even though she physically could not get into work for weekend 7.45 starts, she contractually must, therefore, understandably she quit. Fine, would have been nice if she'd told us that or someone said "So and so isn't working here because of commuting problems", but no, the rumours started!

Of the two who were on disciplinaries, I knew why, though only through privilaged information which I've never shared. Both quit, though to this day (hence the nervousness of everyone in the dept) noone actually knows if this was under duress. One we were all very close to, we know she's doing ok and doing agency, that's it. The other, well, that's a mystery.

Now noone trusts one-another in the dept incase when we go out we say the wrong thing. Moral is at the lowest most people ever remember. We are completely relying on agency for most shifts, without them, we'd sink!

Now I'm not saying that the management should tell us what happened, however, I think that it might be a good idea for moral that they hold a staff meeting and address the issues without disclosing any personal details and ease the severe tension that is going around. I'm just worried more people will quit (and I'm sure they will) due to lack of moral.

Everyone is scared they are next. Hopefully this tension will ease soon!

[CseMgr1, ASN, RN]

[quote=ClaireMac

Now I'm not saying that the management should tell us what happened, however, I think that it might be a good idea for moral that they hold a staff meeting and address the issues without disclosing any personal details and ease the severe tension that is going around. I'm just worried more people will quit (and I'm sure they will) due to lack of moral.

QUOTE]

Exactly. At the job where I had worked for 4-1/2 years through the end of last May, our Manager called a staff meeting to inform us that one of our CSA's (Customer Service Associates) had just been terminated after being with this company for 14 years. I felt bad for her, for she was a hard worker and was one of the few CSA's I could rely on without having to put up with any whining, moaning and b******* in the process. Rumor had it afterwards

that one of the supervisors, who was a known troublemaker had had her fired. That individual is no longer employed by this company, either. Like the old saying goes: "What GOES around...COMES around!"

[GLORIAmunchkin72]

Co-workers may want to know out of curiosity, but it's not "their right" to know.

[jodyangel, RN]

Well I was recently terminated for crap reasons myself and Trust Me I have kept in touch with my former co-workers and told them what happened. In detail. Why? Because of the crap way my supervisor treated me and to help them to cover their backs. In no way did I want them to think that I had been fired for actually poor work or anything like that. These nurses are my friends and deserve a heads UP!

This hospital has fired loads of nurses and management and Always come up with some made up story..even the one "they resigned".

Yeah, they resigned cause they were told if they didn't they would be fired!!

Thing is, by resigning they arent able to collect any unemployement at all in the time they're looking for a new job. I filed and lost, but fought it and was awarded. So now I'm waiting for the money for the weeks that this hospital was "punishing me".

No way was I shutting up over the wrong done to me, and I'm sure that I will work again somewhere else with some of these nurses who I love.