Covid Omicron Variant

[MunoRN]

It's only fair to point out that Biden is also racist AF.  (AF= as ... can't be mentioned on AN, because we're nurses and we don't swear, ever).

The Omicron variant has so far been detected in South Africa, Botswana, Israel, Belgium, Hong Kong, UK, Germany, Italy, and Czechia.  But of those countries the US has implemented travel bans on only two of those countries; South Africa and Botswana.  In addition to those two, travel bans have been enacted for eSwatini, Lesotho, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, and Zimbabwe, even though no cases of Omicron have been detected there.  

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

It is however, fear mongering to wail about vaccine side effects, unsubstantiated VAERS reports, absence of "long-term " studies, micro chips, and becoming magnetized. 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Nah...we are approaching the 3rd year of a global pandemic...anyone who is talking about fear mongering relative to new variant warnings is an idiot committed to propaganda rather than critical thought or sound reasoning. 

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/964232?uac=94896SX&faf=1&sso=true&impID=3854417&src=mkm_covid_update_211206_MSCPEDIT

 

I agree. Biden has clearly said there is cause for concern but not need to panic.  He's been level headed and not fear mongering.

But with covid on the rise and New York needing the National Guard (but that might be their own fault for the mandate, but that's another story) and states like Iowa and Wisconsin getting hammered with Delta, adding another variant should be a concern.

But conservative anti-covid people are spinning and trying to use Omicron to make Fauci look bad, rather than being relieved it might not be that bad.

Above is the link I meant to put in my initial post.

[toomuchbaloney]

3 hours ago, Tweety said:

But conservative anti-covid people are spinning and trying to use Omicron to make Fauci look bad, rather than being relieved it might not be that bad.

Even conservatives who don't want to be considered anti covid or Trump supporters are following Trump's lead in the character assassination of Fauci. When AN members suggest that we shouldn't trust Fauci they should at least have a suggestion as to who they believe should be trusted relative to public health and pandemic response.  Who are they taking covid guidance from? Joe Rogan? Scott Atlas? Tucker Carlson?

[Beerman, BSN]

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Even conservatives who don't want to be considered anti covid or Trump supporters are following Trump's lead in the character assassination of Fauci. When AN members suggest that shouldn't trust Fauci they should at least have a suggestion as to who they believe should be trusted relative to public health and pandemic response.  Who are they taking covid guidance from? Joe Rogan? Scott Atlas? Tucker Carlson?

I'm pretty well-versed on where to find reliable information and make my own decisions.

Whose advice are you following?  When Fauci said the ordinary citizen didn't need to wear a mask, did you follow that advice?  You still trusted him after he admitted he lied?

[toomuchbaloney]

2 minutes ago, Beerman said:

I'm pretty well-versed on where to find reliable information and make my own decisions.

Whose advice are you following?  When Fauci said the ordinary citizen didn't need to wear a mask, did you follow that advice?  You still trusted him after he admitted he lied?

Case in point. Name your reliable sources that tell you something different from Dr Fauci about covid.  Fauci didn't admit that he lied, that's a right wing characterization of his messaging.  Do you know who did tell lies about covid and spread confusion and noncompliance on a regular and routine basis? I bet you could guess.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/10/01/trump-is-single-largest-driver-of-covid-19-misinformation-cornell-study-finds/

[Beerman, BSN]

22 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Case in point. Name your reliable sources that tell you something different from Dr Fauci about covid.  Fauci didn't admit that he lied, that's a right wing characterization of his messaging.  Do you know who did tell lies about covid and spread confusion and noncompliance on a regular and routine basis? I bet you could guess.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/10/01/trump-is-single-largest-driver-of-covid-19-misinformation-cornell-study-finds/

Ho hum.  Another deflection to Trump.

 

[toomuchbaloney]

5 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Ho hum.  Another deflection to Trump.

 

Sure. But what sources are you using for covid guidance that are offering different information and recommendations than Fauci? Aren't you going to try to justify your mischaracterization of Fauci's remarks? It appears that instead you're going to whine about Trump being recognized as a liar after you project lies onto Trump's scapegoat.  That's not predictable or anything.

[Beerman, BSN]

29 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Case in point. Name your reliable sources that tell you something different from Dr Fauci about covid.  Fauci didn't admit that he lied, that's a right wing characterization of his messaging.  Do you know who did tell lies about covid and spread confusion and noncompliance on a regular and routine basis? I bet you could guess.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/10/01/trump-is-single-largest-driver-of-covid-19-misinformation-cornell-study-finds/

I'll rephrase my questions that you avoided.  Maybe I ruffled your feathers picking on Tony.

When he advised that the public didn't need to wear a mask, did you find that to be good advice?   Did you follow that advice?  I know I didn't. 

Later,  he said he only advised that because he was concerned about masks running out for healthcare workers.  Don't you think he should have just been honest to begin with?  How did that effect his credibility?

 

 

[BuckeyeNP, MSN, RN, APN]

On 12/5/2021 at 9:07 PM, Beerman said:

BTW, your belief in the chart is also opinion.   As is the chart itself.  Its one person's or a group of folks' opinion.

Actually, no. If you'd read anything about that chart, you would see that this is something that has been researched extensively, as with the studies demonstrating that those getting their news from PBS, for example, were better informed on accurate data. OK nstead, you fast drew your opinion gun whioe my point being, not looking at your argument, but rather your source. If you had used that source in an academic paper, you would've been asked to use another or take the source out. 

Nursing should be a SCIENCE and data-driven. If we can't identify good sources (like PubMed resources, for example), then how on G-d's Earth are we providing evidenced based care to our patients. 

Giving opinion is fine, but like in academia, if these are NURSING opinions, which is the PURPOSE of this site, then use confirmed sources. Again, for everyone in the back, this media chart is r e s e a r c h e d and as you see identifies sources that are diametrically opposed, such as The Economist/WSJ and NPR, as accurate and reliable sources. When you make a comment, and source some weird conspiracy site, it lessens your argument. Either you need a better source, or you might want to reconsider your "opinion." I can't believe this needs to be said on a website allegedly devoted to people with advanced degrees in nursing science. 

[Beerman, BSN]

5 minutes ago, BuckeyeNP said:

The Economist/WSJ and NPR, as accurate and reliable sources. When you make a comment, and source some weird conspiracy site, it lessens your argument.

You don't want to discuss the opinion or issue.  So, its much easier for you to try and discredit the source.  The favorite debate strategy of liberals everywhere.

So, if one of your preferred sources doesn't cover a story, does that mean the story doesn't exist?

The source I shared an opinion from definitely is conservative leaning.  Hardly a "conspiracy site", however. 

And, it lessens my argument, in your opinion.  That doesn't mean it's wrong or invalid. 

[BuckeyeNP, MSN, RN, APN]

Just now, Beerman said:

Later,  he said he only advised that because he was concerned about masks running out for healthcare workers.  Don't you think he should have just been honest to begin with?  How did that effect his credibility?

I have absolutely no problem with people who genuinely have complaints about Fauci. I can remember back in the day, maybe too early for you, when he was part of the Republican (Reagan) administration's official policy of suppressing data and research on HIV and AIDS. Some people want to remember him as the hero of the story, but I remember friends and Stonewall and ActUP actually having to drag him to the table to get anything done. True, he's dedicated to his career and he did take care of patients. BUT, as someone with a friend who died during that time, it burns me how the government, including Fauci, tried to pretend it away. ActUP saved lives. 

Everything said about the Trump administration and Fauci is true as well: they gave misleading and contradicting information. Some of the information, probably made in desperation because of the administration's dragging on getting PPE, caused the lives of HCWs. That's a fact. The administration sat on their behind and either didn't know how or wouldn't get sufficient PPE for hospitals and HC facilities. The CDC told us we could work with SCARVES! What. A. Mess. That wasn't just Fauci. That's on Trump, the CDC, and just about every segment of the US government. (People need to remember that the next time they think their particular party has their back.)

If you'll think back about the mask debacle, which makes me lose my mind when I think about it...it was the US, including the general populace and governmental agencies, that resisted the idea of wearing a mask for protection. Who was literally screaming to get European countries and the US to start masking? CHINA!! Of all places. They tried to get us to listen and everyone balked from Trump to Fauci to Joe Sixpack at the QuickyMart. Don't care why they said not to get a mask or make one...no doubt about it, it cost lives. 

But here's the thing... I don't see a lot of people, tbh on either political side, talking about what went wrong AND what went right. It's okay to criticize Fauci and the CDC. They let us down. But that doesn't make either always wrong. I can criticize but also recognize what he did do correctly. Some of the issue is not just shoot being resistant to changes in how we do things (Fauci and the rest of us with masking, for example), but acknowledging that those with whom we disagree or have let us down, can also have done things correctly. Trump did almost everything wrong he could do, too much to put in this post...but it was his administration that fast-tracked for us to get a vaccine. Sticking to a political camp and not acknowledging what's outside of your camp is fine for your personal life, but doesn't advance good nursing. 

But what a lot of us see isn't legitimate critical debate. Fauci is a scapegoat who gets used in peddling anti-vaxx and anti-mask propaganda. And there is n o  r o o m in nursing to play political games. There is no room in nursing for conspiracy theories and anti-science gobbledegook when people's lives are at stake and in our hands. There's no room for nurses who won't mask off duty to reduce their risk of infection and absolutely no room for nurses who won't get vaccinated. It's criminal putting your patients at risk for a potentially deadly disease that causes significant morbidity for many patients who survive or even just have minimal symptoms. 

Anyone who wants to make legitimate complaints and arguments is absolutely welcome if those arguments are in earnest. But what I'm seeing and others are seeing here is just a slap-dash throw out of Fauci's name abruptly followed by conspiracy theories and anti-science and bullcrap "sources" that would flunk people if they used it in a nursing school paper. Real nurses don't have time for that. (And yes, I see the "true Scotsman fallacy" that one could argue with that last statement...but I said what I said. Nursing is a health care profession, not a place for conspiracy theories.)

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Ho hum back to the mask flip flop.

For the record when I heard at first we didn't need to wear a mask I didn't, but started to at work a few days ahead of when work mandated them.  Also when it was suggested that maybe masks were a good idea in public places after all,  I started to wear a mask I public places.  I understood this was different from what was said earlier but didn't get all bent out of shape about it.

When the CDC and Fauci  said vaccinated people could take them off in public places I took them off day one.  When Delta changed their mind, I started wearing a mask a again.  

Right now even though the recommendation is still for vaccinated people to wear a mask indoors, I don't since Delta has burned through my area and rates of positivity are 2.4% in my county and hospitalizations are extremely low.  I'm good with that.

So year for the most part I have listened to their advice, while gathering information and making my own free choice decisions.  I don't think "they lied" when then evidence came along to change their recommendations.  Like I said, we're dealing with this in real time.

Exclusively my decisions on how to live my life in covid are based on my own person health (zero comorbidities and thrice vaccinated), what Fauci and the CDC are saying, what other scientists and doctors are saying and what is going on in my immediate community and hospital.  

My decisions certainly aren't made by a bunch of journalists or Joe Blows.

When it's announced we are lifting the travel bans to South Africa (UK just added Nigeria the other day) are we going to say 'they lied' and make a big deal of it?

I understand that this does really make it difficult to trust the process and it looks like we're bumbling along.  But it certainly doesn't mean they are lying, fear mongering or stupid.