Cost of illegal immigration on one Florida hospital

Danish, MSN, APRN, NP · Jun 6, 2008

aeauooo,
I agree with the entirety of the rest of your post, but thought I should point out to all reading that unlawful status in the US is a civil charge, not a criminal one. As is a speeding ticket. Whether you or I or anyone else likes it or not, that's the way it is. Unlawful status in the US is not a crime, any more than a speeding ticket is.
Also, I personally am offended at the term 'anchor baby.' I am sure that if anyone were to see my son, that would be the last thing that would come to mind, but his father is here illegally. I for one cannot grind the immigration debate into the face of a preschooler. And my husband is the best father I could ask for my child.
We are in the process of trying to straighten his stuff out, but there is something wrong when a person who is married to a US citizen, owns property here, pays taxes, and speaks English cannot adjust his/her status. It is going to cost us in the thousands of dollars (which we do not have) and even then, unless the law changes, there is no guarantee that things will go the way we'd like. There is something wrong with that. Unless there is real reform, threads like this are always going to pop up.
One other thought: people who come here from Cuba generally get here the same way illegal immigrants do - they come w/out visas. Only, the US government rewards Cubans while punishing other folks from other nationalities. I'm sorry, but that's not fair. When it is equally easy or equally difficult for good people of all nationalities to get here, then you'll hear me quit squawking so loudly.

I truely hope your husband can get his status corrected. When I posted the link, I was not trying to debate wheather immigrants should be here (legally or illegally), just that the cost of illegal immigrants who do not pay their healthcare bills are staggering. I know, I know, I am going to be told that the cost of American citizens who do not pay their bills are too. I dont disagree. But, I know that they have SSN's and can be traced and prosecuted/leined, etc.

SharonH, RN · Jun 6, 2008

and yes, aside from native americans we are all immigrants.

people love to make this distinction but those of us who are descended from african slaves are not immigrants. immigrants implies willing entry into this country.

just for accuracy's sake.

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · Jun 6, 2008

My fault for posting my 'immigration manifesto.'

I do agree that there is a problem and it is has so many facets that they can't all be addressed in one thread. But there are many many places in which illegal immigrants contribute to this economy outside hopsital bills that they can't/don't/won't pay. There may be hospital bills unpaid - but there are a lot of social security dollars that are never going to be claimed. There are a lot of taxes taken out (the fake SSN is another debate for another thread) that never get claimed.

I used to work in a community health center that served mostly Hispanic, mostly undocumented immigrants. (Open to all, but that was the majority of the pt population.) And you know what? Our patients paid their bills. We had a sliding-scale fee, but not everybody qualified for the lowest payment. But they paid their bills.

Danish, MSN, APRN, NP · Jun 6, 2008

My fault for posting my 'immigration manifesto.'
I do agree that there is a problem and it is has so many facets that they can't all be addressed in one thread. But there are many many places in which illegal immigrants contribute to this economy outside hopsital bills that they can't/don't/won't pay. There may be hospital bills unpaid - but there are a lot of social security dollars that are never going to be claimed. There are a lot of taxes taken out (the fake SSN is another debate for another thread) that never get claimed.

You know, I have never really thought about that (SS and taxes paid in).

asoonernurse · Jun 6, 2008

Exactly, your "badge of honor."

The Badge of Honor I referred to was their ability to speak English. You either have poor comprehension skills or you're playing dumb.

Relevance? You're blowing smoke.

Okaaaaay... maybe you are playing dumb. Can you at least point out to wit this remark is applied, so I may respond.

Go back and re-read that definition: regulated discussion, according to the rules of parliamentary procedure.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...please. This is the BEST you can do?

1.a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.

2.a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.

3.deliberation; consideration.

4.Archaic. strife; contention.

–verb (used without object)

5.to engage in argument or discussion, as in a legislative or public assembly: When we left, the men were still debating.

6.to participate in a formal debate.

7.to deliberate; consider: I debated with myself whether to tell them the truth or not.

8.Obsolete. to fight; quarrel.

–verb (used with object)

9.to argue or discuss (a question, issue, or the like), as in a legislative or public assembly: They debated the matter of free will.

10.to dispute or disagree about: The homeowners debated the value of a road on the island.

11.to engage in formal argumentation or disputation with (another person, group, etc.): Jones will debate Smith. Harvard will debate Princeton.

12.to deliberate upon; consider: He debated his decision in the matter.

13.Archaic. to contend for or over.

[Origin: 1250–1300; (v.) ME debaten

What is it you'd like me to source? What claims have I made, other than about first-generation immigrants?

Source?? You haven't actually SAID anything! All you done is hypothesize and give an opinion. Then you get upset when someone DISAGREES. You picked (arguably) the most "hot button" issue in America, then are perplexed when everyone doesn't "jump on board."

But we can play this game If you'd like.

1. Show me ANY study, white paper, statistics, documentation or sourced material that supports your opinion that illegal immigrants are not a drain on the American taxpayer

2. Show me ANY study, white paper, statistics, documentation or sourced material that supports your opinion that illegal immigrants "pay taxes."

3. Show me ANY study, white paper, statistics, documentation or sourced material that supports your opinion that illegal immigrants are NOT a drain on the health system OR are that the treatment(s) they receive are funded by their employer's health benefits package or by the country from which they came.

4. Show me ANY study, white paper, statistics, documentation or sourced material that supports your opinion that supports your argument that NOT doing anything about illegal immigration will NOT effect our economy.

5. Show me ANY study, white paper, statistics, documentation or sourced material that supports your opinion that businesses that "might" close or go out of business due to the exclusion of "cheap labor" provided by illegal immigrants will adversely affect our economy OR way of life.

FYI, the source is the sociology course I took as a prereq for my BSN. Pardon me if I don't haul that heavy box off of the shelf to cite chapter & verse, but it's there.

No. It's not.

Thanks for making me feel like the $700 I spent on that class wasn't completely wasted.

Pleasure. Sorry you wasted your money.

By the way, what's your source for your 'badge of honor' statement.

Zimmermann, K.F. (ed.), European Migration: What Do We Know? Oxford University Press, (2005)

You made several claims in your responses to my posts for which you have not in any way provided sources.

Name'em. I'll provide.

I don't have to source my opinions which, unless I'm mistaken, are pretty much all that I've posted on this thread so far - you don't have to agree with them.

I haven't been.

How is it relevant? By itself, which is all you've provided, it means nothing.

How is WHAT relevant? Be specific.

To quote Monty Python, "An argument is a connected series of statements to establish a definite proposition."

Great. More quotes.

This isn't an argument.

Never was.

Atheos · Jun 6, 2008

People love to make this distinction but those of us who are descended from African slaves are NOT immigrants. Immigrants implies willing entry into this country.
Just for accuracy's sake.

Also, to ensure accuracy.... Native Americans ARE immigrants. Being the first immigrants doesn't negate the fact that they too are immigrants.

BlueRidgeHomeRN · Jun 7, 2008

people love to make this distinction but those of us who are descended from african slaves are not immigrants. immigrants implies willing entry into this country.
just for accuracy's sake.

the slave trade is a blight on america's history.

most americans are not decendants of slave holders or traders.

liberia was a reparation idea who failed.

can we fast forward to a time when a literal african- american is running for president and focus on the current problem with illegal immigrants?

it was awful, it was a moral outrage, but it's history.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Jun 7, 2008

Moved to Social and Healthcare Activism forum

SharonH, RN · Jun 7, 2008

the slave trade is a blight on america's history.
most americans are not decendants of slave holders or traders.
liberia was a reparation idea who failed.
can we fast forward to a time when a literal african- american is running for president and focus on the current problem with illegal immigrants?
it was awful, it was a moral outrage, but it's history.

you were the one who brought up the history of how we came to be americans. i was just pointing out that your version of events doesn't apply to everyone and all of a sudden let's not talk about it, let's fast forward to the moment? it makes you uncomfortable but you're right it's history and you can't pretend it didn't happen and you can't just gloss over it as you just tried to do above.

i brought it up for two reasons: 1. it really does bug me when people claim that we are all immigrants when we are not. and 2. it points out the hypocrisy of the current debate on immigration. this country was created by illegal immigrants, some of whom brought some of us here illegally. just because you and yours got here after the crime was committed or already in process doesn't mean that you didn't benefit. after the land was stolen from the native americans, it was then legally sold to and settled by who? so-called legal immigrants.

Danish, MSN, APRN, NP · Jun 7, 2008

You were the one who brought up the history of how we came to be Americans. I was just pointing out that your version of events doesn't apply to everyone and all of a sudden let's not talk about it, let's fast forward to the moment? It makes you uncomfortable but you're right it's history and you can't pretend it didn't happen and you can't just gloss over it as you just tried to do above.
I brought it up for two reasons: 1. It really does bug me when people claim that we are ALL immigrants when we are not. and 2. It points out the hypocrisy of the CURRENT debate on immigration. This country was created by illegal immigrants, some of whom brought some of us here illegally. Just because you and yours got here after the crime was committed or already in process doesn't mean that you didn't benefit. After the land was stolen from the Native Americans, it was then legally sold to and settled by who? So-called legal immigrants.

Wow! I understand your passion, but we are getting a little off topic dont yall think? :argue:

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · Jun 7, 2008

Immigration and all the facets thereof brings out strong feelings in a lot of members, and I'm including myself here. Threads of this sort do tend to have many twists & turns along the way.

SharonH, RN · Jun 7, 2008

Wow! I understand your passion, but we are getting a little off topic dont yall think? :argue:

LOL, I just read almost 7 pages of this debate that have swayed from the original post but when you get to my comments, it's a problem.

Go back to my last post prior to this one and look at my second point and see how my comments relate to the current discussion.