Cost of illegal immigration on one Florida hospital

asoonernurse · Jun 6, 2008

As I understand it, the first generation of immigrants (from anywhere in the world to anywhere in the world) usually don't learn the native language, or "learn just enough to get around" (having lived and travelled in a number of countries where English is not the primary language, I know "just enough" Farsi, French, Amharic, and Arabic "to get around").

Then you don't know much about the history of mass immigration in America. Most immigrants who "came off the boat" at Ellis Island spoke NO English, (or as you put it, "just enough to get around.") However, Their children quickly picked up on it (through American schools) and many adults considered it a "badge of honor" to be able to speak English in public places.

Successive generations of descendants learn the language of the country and become assimilated into the culture of the country to which their parents immigrated.

Fast forward to present day. There are whole communities in California, Texas and Florida where NO English is spoken, and the immigrants there have no inclination to assimilate.

I live in New Orleans and have lived in Philadelphia, and in both cities you will find very proud Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, German-American, African-Americans, and a smattering of others.

Subic Bay, Anchorage, London, Sydney, Toowoomba, Miami, Montreal, Germany, Chicago, Detroit, College Station, Dallas, Sacramento. I've lived quite a few places myself.

Hyphenated Americans did not exist until the later part of this century. Please do not insinuate that this has exited throughout the history of immigration in America. This hyphenation is a relatively new phenomenon.

irish6363 · Jun 6, 2008

Amen to that. You know my father thinks that one condition for a green card is joining the army if you are able, LIKE HE DID and went to Vietnam that is how he was able to get his. He says no one will volunteer for the green card then ...no kidding he really says this. All I can say is I am grateful I was born here in the GREAT U.S.A and not CUBA and not HONDURAS and not CHINA and not DARFUR and not NORTH KOREA and many many more. But I do understand the humanistic side which I think some people here are talking about too. It is a difficult situation.

asoonernurse · Jun 6, 2008

Can you provide objective data to support your claims? All of the statements I made began with "I wonder...," but you claim to know the answers to those questions - how? What's your source?
If you can't provide the evidence to support your claims, your argument is weaker than mine.

I answered your questions already. The best you can do is claim my argument is weak because of the "quotation?"

With a GPD of some $13 TRILLION dollars (2007; U.S. Dept. of Statistics), I find it hard to jump on your "If we deported the illegals, it would greatly affect the business community and the economy" line. Sorry, you could deport every illegal alien in America AND shut down the businesses they worked for and not put a DENT in that number.

Like I said, "weak argument."

aeauooo · Jun 6, 2008

Then you don't know much about the history of mass immigration in America. Most immigrants who "came off the boat" at Ellis Island spoke NO English, (or as you put it, "just enough to get around.") However, Their children quickly picked up on it (through American schools).

Excuse me - that's exactly what I said.

You're too busy sniping to bother to read and understand what I wrote to make a valid point in return.

I've made the points I wanted to make. I don't have problem with you disagreeing with me, but I'm not going to engage you in dialog if you're going to reflexively gainsay everything I say without providing evidence to support your claims.

Cool it, or forget it.

aeauooo · Jun 6, 2008

I answered your questions already. The best you can do is claim my argument is weak because of the "quotation?"
With a GPD of some $13 TRILLION dollars (2007; U.S. Dept. of Statistics), I find it hard to jump on your "If we deported the illegals, it would greatly affect the business community and the economy" line. Sorry, you could deport every illegal alien in America AND shut down the businesses they worked for and not put a DENT in that number.
Like I said, "weak argument."

How is that a response to what I wrote? You throw a number at me and expect me to accept that it's even relevent to the topic - it doesn't work that way.

You don't even have a weak argument.

asoonernurse · Jun 6, 2008

Excuse me - that's exactly what I said.
You're too busy sniping to bother to read and understand what I wrote to make a valid point in return.

Then do try to keep up.

I noticed in your response that you clipped out what you wanted and snipped the rest. Nice.

YOU said: (snipped) usually don't learn the native language, or "learn just enough to get around"

I said: "Then you don't know much about the history of mass immigration in America. Most immigrants who "came off the boat" at Ellis Island spoke NO English, (or as you put it, "just enough to get around.") However, Their children quickly picked up on it (through American schools) and many adults considered it a "badge of honor" to be able to speak English in public places."

If you bothered to read these two paragraphs, then you will note that they are NOT the same at all.

I've made the points I wanted to make. I don't have problem with you disagreeing with me, but I'm not going to engage you in dialog if you're going to reflexively gainsay everything I say without providing evidence to support your claims.

Then don't throw up the definition of a debate if you do not understand the meaning. People who debate do it from OPPOSING sides. As for evidence, ask and yea shall receive. And in return, you shall post YOUR evidence to the contrary.

BTW, the U.S. Department of Statistics wasn't good enough for you? :eek:

Cool it, or forget it.

No. Here's my nifty quote, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

aeauooo · Jun 6, 2008

With a GPD of some $13 TRILLION dollars (2007; U.S. Dept. of Statistics), I find it hard to jump on your "If we deported the illegals, it would greatly affect the business community and the economy" line. Sorry, you could deport every illegal alien in America AND shut down the businesses they worked for and not put a DENT in that number.

Or, I could interpret your statement to mean that the effect of illegal immigration really doesn't make a dent in our economy anyway, so why worry?

asoonernurse · Jun 6, 2008

How is that a response to what I wrote? You throw a number at me and expect me to accept that it's even relevent to the topic - it doesn't work that way.
You don't even have a weak argument.

What you mean to say is that you have no answer, so diversion tactics are the best you can do.

The "number" I "threw at you" was in response to your question(s) in post 21 of the effect a mass deportation would have on the American business community and/or economy.

According to the latest GDP numbers, we could lay out 10 BILLION dollars for mass deportation and it wouldn't even make a DENT in the 13 TRILLION GDP.

asoonernurse · Jun 6, 2008

Or, I could interpret your statement to mean that the effect of illegal immigration really doesn't make a dent in our economy anyway, so why worry?

Because taxpayers like me don't want to PAY for it. It's a simple as that. I don't see why you cannot grasp this simple fact.

If these people can come into the country through the proper channels, pay taxes along with the rest of us and contribute to the American way of life, I would embrace them wholeheartedly.

THAT is not happening. And I don't WANT to have to Press 1 for English in AMERICA. THAT particular annoyance has never happened UNTIL we started to have the mass influx of illegal immigration.

And, like that hospital administrator stated to her state's commissioner(?), I don't want to have to spend 1.3 MILLION dollars on ONE SINGLE INDIVIDUAL that is in the country illegally, doesn't even attempt to learn the language OR bring any type of skill here with them!

Danish, MSN, APRN, NP · Jun 6, 2008

I don't think there was any less animosity towards legal immigrants then (or now) that there is towards illegal immigrants now.
Their status as illegal immigrants is related to changes in immigration policy in this country. Immigrants, legal or otherwise, come to this country today for exactly the same reason as most of our ancestors. They are just as human, just as hard working, and just as ambitious as our ancestors.
In other words, it's not their fault that they are "illegal."

I totally agree with you, HOWEVER...

why shouldnt they have to pay the same healthcare bill I have to????

I took my current job over another because the insurance was better. As sound mind adults, we have to be responsible for our OWN healthcare costs. I dont expect you to pay my bills.

aeauooo · Jun 6, 2008

YOU said: (snipped) usually don't learn the native language, or "learn just enough to get around"

Exactly, your "badge of honor."

I said: "Then you don't know much about the history of mass immigration in America. Most immigrants who "came off the boat" at Ellis Island spoke NO English, (or as you put it, "just enough to get around.") However, Their children quickly picked up on it (through American schools) and many adults considered it a "badge of honor" to be able to speak English in public places."
If you bothered to read these two paragraphs, then you will note that they are NOT the same at all.

Relevance? You're blowing smoke.

Then don't throw up the definition of a debate if you do not understand the meaning. People who debate do it from OPPOSING sides. As for evidence, ask and yea shall receive. And in return, you shall post YOUR evidence to the contrary.

Go back and re-read that definition: regulated discussion, according to the rules of parliamentary procedure.

What is it you'd like me to source? What claims have I made, other than about first-generation immigrants?

FYI, the source is the sociology course I took as a prereq for my BSN. Pardon me if I don't haul that heavy box off of the shelf to cite chapter & verse, but it's there.

Thanks for making me feel like the $700 I spent on that class wasn't completely wasted.

By the way, what's your source for your 'badge of honor' statement.

You made several claims in your responses to my posts for which you have not in any way provided sources.

I don't have to source my opinions which, unless I'm mistaken, are pretty much all that I've posted on this thread so far - you don't have to agree with them.

BTW, the U.S. Department of Statistics wasn't good enough for you?

How is it relevant? By itself, which is all you've provided, it means nothing.

"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

To quote Monty Python, "An argument is a connected series of statements to establish a definite proposition."

This isn't an argument.

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · Jun 6, 2008

If you watch the show COPS, you might easily draw the conclusion that criminals are really stupid people, but let's give the people who hire illegal immigrants the benefit of the doubt and assume they are not acting impulsively, they are aware they are committing a crime, and are aware of the risks of committing that crime.

aeauooo,

I agree with the entirety of the rest of your post, but thought I should point out to all reading that unlawful status in the US is a civil charge, not a criminal one. As is a speeding ticket. Whether you or I or anyone else likes it or not, that's the way it is. Unlawful status in the US is not a crime, any more than a speeding ticket is.

Also, I personally am offended at the term 'anchor baby.' I am sure that if anyone were to see my son, that would be the last thing that would come to mind, but his father is here illegally. I for one cannot grind the immigration debate into the face of a preschooler. And my husband is the best father I could ask for my child.

We are in the process of trying to straighten his stuff out, but there is something wrong when a person who is married to a US citizen, owns property here, pays taxes, and speaks English cannot adjust his/her status. It is going to cost us in the thousands of dollars (which we do not have) and even then, unless the law changes, there is no guarantee that things will go the way we'd like. There is something wrong with that. Unless there is real reform, threads like this are always going to pop up.

One other thought: people who come here from Cuba generally get here the same way illegal immigrants do - they come w/out visas. Only, the US government rewards Cubans while punishing other folks from other nationalities. I'm sorry, but that's not fair. When it is equally easy or equally difficult for good people of all nationalities to get here, then you'll hear me quit squawking so loudly.