Cost of illegal immigration on one Florida hospital

Nurses Activism

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Politicians speak about the crasy cost of illegal immigrants on one Florida hospital...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI

Very good..A sense of humor is always the best way to unite people. That is something we can all agree on :chuckle. You know my parents were like " I Love Lucy "in reverse Dad Irish, Mom Cuban. It is funny. I would hear all about the Irish plight then all about the Cuban plight.

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Specializes in neuro, ICU/CCU, tropical medicine.
Very good..A sense of humor is always the best way to unite people.

Thanks.

I'd like to believe we can have a discussion about a subject with which we have disagreements without becoming hostile - as we've seen on other threads.

I've acknowledged that I don't know much about economics, but there's no shame in that. Seeing as this is a nursing forum, I suspect there are few, if any, reading this thread who have a significantly better grasp of economics than I do.

I think it's safe to assume that most of us have a fundamental understanding of supply side economics - the law of supply and demand.

I think most of us agree that there is an abundance of illegal immigrants in this country supplying cheap labor. What would happen if there was no demand for cheap, albeit illegal, labor?

A lot of cyber ink has been spilled making the point that illegal immigrants have committed a crime by crossing the border into this country. As I understand it, knowingly employing an illegal immigrant is also a crime.

If you watch the show COPS, you might easily draw the conclusion that criminals are really stupid people, but let's give the people who hire illegal immigrants the benefit of the doubt and assume they are not acting impulsively, they are aware they are committing a crime, and are aware of the risks of committing that crime.

Why would anyone hire an illegal immigrant?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Obviously, if we're talking about rational people, the benefits of hiring illegal immigrants must outweigh the risks.

So instead of pointing to illegal immigrants as the problem, why don't we instead blame the people who hire them?

What are we doing by rounding up illegal immigrants, shipping them across the border, knowing full well that they have the incentive and the means to turn right around and come back again? Why is our government so willing to spend your tax dollars on manpower, fuel, and wear and tear on the vehicles used to transport illegal immigrants across the border when they know it doesn't have any effect on the supply of cheap, illegal labor?

I'm just speculating here:

Maybe it's because the government really doesn't want to solve the "problem" of illegal immigration. ($)

Maybe it's because it's much easier to go after people who have no legal representation than it is to prosecute the other criminals - those who create the demand.

Maybe the problem isn't as black & white as we've been led to believe.

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Specializes in LTC.
Incidentally, the scapegoating of immigrants in this country is nothing new, as a descendant of Irish (or Italian, Jewish, Polish, German, Asian, et cetera) immigrants must certainly be well aware.

This is just a new face on an old 'problem.'

If I recall my history well, NONE of the groups you mentioned refused to learn the English Language or assimilate as AMERICANS, not hyphenated Americans. Neither did the demand that America change to accommodate them.

Regards,

Michael

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Specializes in LTC.
I wonder what the cost of mass deportation would be in comparison to the amount of money spent on health care - and other social services utilized by illegal immigrants.

Probably about 0.0001%. However, I know many people (and groups) who would gladly volunteer to do it for free. Myself included.

I wonder how effective a program of mass deportation would be in the long run.

In what sense?

I wonder if those who exploit illegal immigrants for cheap labor really want illegal immigrants to leave the country (status quo).

Those that exploit illegal immigrants for cheap labor make up a VERY small percentage of the business community. And no, of course THEY do not want their cheap labor to end.

I wonder how many of those businesses would pack up and head south of the border if they lost their supply of cheap labor in this country.

Not enough to make even a minor dent in the overall health of the nation's budget. You are fighting a losing battle using this tact.

Forest for the trees.

Spare me the quotations; the argument is weak.

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Specializes in neuro, ICU/CCU, tropical medicine.
If I recall my history well, NONE of the groups you mentioned refused to learn the English Language or assimilate as AMERICANS, not hyphenated Americans. Neither did the demand that America change to accommodate them.

As I understand it, the first generation of immigrants (from anywhere in the world to anywhere in the world) usually don't learn the native language, or "learn just enough to get around" (having lived and travelled in a number of countries where English is not the primary language, I know "just enough" Farsi, French, Amharic, and Arabic "to get around").

Successive generations of descendants learn the language of the country and become assimilated into the culture of the country to which their parents immigrated.

I live in New Orleans and have lived in Philadelphia, and in both cities you will find very proud Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, German-American, African-Americans, and a smattering of others.

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Specializes in neuro, ICU/CCU, tropical medicine.
Spare me the quotations; the argument is weak.

Can you provide objective data to support your claims? All of the statements I made began with "I wonder...," but you claim to know the answers to those questions - how? What's your source?

If you can't provide the evidence to support your claims, your argument is weaker than mine.

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Specializes in LTC.
I don't think there was any less animosity towards legal immigrants then (or now) that there is towards illegal immigrants now.

Which, of course, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.

Animosity between one group and another can be laid at the feet of religions, sports fans, political groups, etc. The TOPIC is the cost of illegal immigration on the American taxpayer, with the EXAMPLE being health care. Once again, your argument is weak.

Their status as illegal immigrants is related to changes in immigration policy in this country.

In what way. Elaborate on that extremely broad statement please.

Immigrants, legal or otherwise, come to this country today for exactly the same reason as most of our ancestors.

But they came mostly by SHIP, and thus through IMMIGRATION, which was controlled by THE GOVERNMENT.

They are just as human, just as hard working, and just as ambitious as our ancestors.

Absolutely NO ONE here has stated that immigrants (of any era) are not "hard working" or "ambitious." Once again, you are off-topic.

In other words, it's not their fault that they are "illegal."

Whose fault would that be then?

Is your point that they simply did not KNOW that paying someone to "sneak" them across the border under cover of darkness WASN'T illegal? That running across highways en mass from Mexico into California and Texas WASN'T illegal? That climbing a WALL or cutting through a FENCE plainly guarded by Border Agents WASN'T illegal? Are you mad?

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This issue is so complex that it will never be resolved. But I do wonder why it is that if we can send a man to the moon we can't tie the major govermental agencies together to share data and solve all the identity theft problems people like me have to live with. I guess it will not be a priority until a Senator or someone on that level has it happen to them then I bet things will change.

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Specializes in LTC.
Loss of wages spent in this country by the laborers, loss of taxes paid by the laborers (yes, they do pay taxes!)

Once again (this is simply too easy) you are COMPLETELY misinformed, or you get your information from television. In order to PAY TAXES, the illegal immigrant would need a SSN or Green Card. Workers (LEGAL workers) taxes are paid to the state and government by the EMPLOYER (that's why your NET pay is significantly LESS than what you take home...duh.)

Employers who employee illegal aliens have NO DESIRE to pay any taxes on them (and don't). "Hi, is this the IRS? Yeah, I have ten illegal aliens working for me. Who should I send my Illegal Immigrant Payroll Taxes to?"

and the business, loss of the contribution of that business to the gross national product.

Already answered this.

Hey, I'm not an economist, but there are two sides to every coin.

Okay, so far, you're not a historian, not an economist, not a political science major, not a hospital administrator, not a Border Agent...anything else we missed?

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Specializes in Telemetry, Med-Surg.
yes, except no one is scapegoating "immigrants".......

........the problem is illegal aliens.

i have no issue with the rainbow of immigrants here to live the american dream. legal immigrants have skills, family support, and are welcome additions to the workplace and economy.

and yes, aside from native americans we are all immigrants.

i have a framed sign in my lr, circa 1890 something;

"no irish need apply"

sorry i have to disagree with you, but we are not all immigrants. perhaps my ancestors were, but my parents, and their parents, and their parents, and their parents, myself, etc., were born and raised in the u.s. so i am not an immigrant, as i was never a member of another country. i do agree that there is a problem with illegal immigration, and i really wish our country would focus more on protecting our own borders rather than those overseas.

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Specializes in Home Care, Hospice, OB.

i agree that the thread topic remains the cost of illegal aliens to health, and the burden it presents to healthcare, not the morality of illegal immigration.

this can get emotional, and justifiably so...every working american is footing the bill for this population. the costs, human and monetary, are staggering.

there is no validiity to comparing immigrants from previous centuries to today's waves of illegals. there were no supports outside of church and family for ellis island immigrants, who could be sent back if they had an eye infection or lacked a family member sponser who would "sign" for them. there were deplorable living and working conditions, but no expectation of a handout. current legal immigrants must show that they will be productive members of society, same as in 1897. criminals and those without skills are not welcome--now or then.

debate is terrific, but i have yet to hear one valid argument for turning a blind eye to illegal aliens, or the predators who employee them.

and sorry if my previous career experience offends. many nurses on this board have previous life experience in another field.

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Specializes in Home Care, Hospice, OB.
sorry i have to disagree with you, but we are not all immigrants. perhaps my ancestors were, but my parents, and their parents, and their parents, and their parents, myself, etc., were born and raised in the u.s. so i am not an immigrant, as i was never a member of another country. i do agree that there is a problem with illegal immigration, and i really wish our country would focus more on protecting our own borders rather than those overseas.

it would have been better to say that except for native americans, we are all immigrants or their decendents..:imbar

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