Cost of illegal immigration on one Florida hospital

Nurses Activism

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Politicians speak about the crasy cost of illegal immigrants on one Florida hospital...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI

Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.
Just because you are able to live in a country where you can cross the border by land or foot should not give you priority over those immigrants waiting their turn in line processing their status legally such as in Nigeria, Spain, Philipines India, etc. What do we do?????? The great debate.

Everybody else does not "wait their turn".

Just today: Illegal Chinese immigrants found in Texas.

Also there are upwards of 100,000 illegal Irish immigrants in this country.

And yes they do have illegal immigrants from all the countries you mention as well as Canada and Russia.

So what do we do? The great debate indeed.

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Specializes in Community, OB, Nursery.
LOL, I just read almost 7 pages of this debate that have swayed from the original post but when you get to my comments, it's a problem.

Go back to my last post prior to this one and look at my second point and see how my comments relate to the current discussion.

I don't think Danish is referring to your posts alone, SharonH, even though yours was the post quoted. Several of us have veered off-topic, myself included. The original post did have a different point than what many of us (again, myself included) have been talking about.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.
I don't think Danish is referring to your posts alone, SharonH, even though yours was the post quoted. Several of us have veered off-topic, myself included. The original post did have a different point than what many of us (again, myself included) have been talking about.

And my point Elvish is that veering off topic was fine for 7 pages until my comments were made and then whoa, let's put the brakes on. ???? Do you see where I'm coming from? They can't have it both ways. Some people on this thread wanted to make certain points about immigration and the history of this country, but when I brought up another aspect to it, it got uncomfortable and now let's fast forward to the present. Let's not go there. Ooooohhh.

Now it's my bedtime so you all don't have to worry. No need to close the thread for moderator discussion or whatever. I won't be continuing my end of it.

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Specializes in Community, OB, Nursery.
And my point Elvish is that veering off topic was fine for 7 pages until my comments were made and then whoa, let's put the brakes on. ???? Do you see where I'm coming from? They can't have it both ways. Some people on this thread wanted to make certain points about immigration and the history of this country, but when I brought up another aspect to it, it got uncomfortable and now let's fast forward to the present. Let's not go there. Ooooohhh.

Now it's my bedtime so you all don't have to worry. No need to close the thread for moderator discussion or whatever. I won't be continuing my end of it.

I see where you're coming from but I don't see that Danish was referring only to you.

I am enjoying hearing people's perspectives on this. I would like to hear more, and as long as the debate can be civil, I think it can and should continue.

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Specializes in LTC.
You were the one who brought up the history of how we came to be Americans. I was just pointing out that your version of events doesn't apply to everyone and all of a sudden let's not talk about it, let's fast forward to the moment? It makes you uncomfortable but you're right it's history and you can't pretend it didn't happen and you can't just gloss over it as you just tried to do above.

Doesn't make me uncomfortable. You want to talk about it, lets talk.

I brought it up for two reasons: 1. It really does bug me when people claim that we are ALL immigrants when we are not.

So true. Never use a broad brush.

and 2. It points out the hypocrisy of the CURRENT debate on immigration. This country was created by illegal immigrants, some of whom brought some of us here illegally.

Wrong. This country was created by immigrants and emigrants, but to state that it was created by ILLEGAL immigrants is:

1. generalizing (you are stating EVERYONE was an illegal immigrant?) and 2. after Lincoln freed the slaves, they were free to travel back to their countries of origin but CHOSE to stay in America.

Just because you and yours got here after the crime was committed or already in process doesn't mean that you didn't benefit.

Nor you, or would you prefer living in the countries of your ascendants?

After the land was stolen from the Native Americans, it was then legally sold to and settled by who? So-called legal immigrants.

Every country on the planet has been "stolen", sold, and stolen again. What's your point. Are you insinuating that your people are the ONLY ones who have been wronged in the history of mankind? That's a bit arrogant, don't you think?

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Specializes in LTC.
LOL, I just read almost 7 pages of this debate that have swayed from the original post but when you get to my comments, it's a problem.

Like I said earlier, I have no problem with it. YOU, on the other hand, are acting if you WANT a fight. Is that what this is?

Go back to my last post prior to this one and look at my second point and see how my comments relate to the current discussion.

I did. They were incorrect. Therefore, they do NOT relate to the current discussion. If, however, you wish to post something that you can back up with facts, then I am all ears.

Otherwise, you are simply ranting.

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Specializes in LTC.
And my point Elvish is that veering off topic was fine for 7 pages until my comments were made and then whoa, let's put the brakes on. ???? Do you see where I'm coming from? They can't have it both ways. Some people on this thread wanted to make certain points about immigration and the history of this country, but when I brought up another aspect to it, it got uncomfortable and now let's fast forward to the present. Let's not go there. Ooooohhh.

I do wish you would stop being all-inclusive with your broad-brush statements. I have absolutely no problems discussing ANY subject you wish to posit.

Now it's my bedtime so you all don't have to worry. No need to close the thread for moderator discussion or whatever. I won't be continuing my end of it.

That's a shame. I looked forward to a hearty debate. I will have to satisfy myself with the CURRENT debate on immigration, as BlueRidge stated in the beginning.

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Specializes in Emergency, ICU.

Fine, fine...

Now, what are the numbers of the many legal citizens who pour into our healthcare system (read county/state hospitals and facilities) who are uninsured and also costing us millions of dollars? and what about the drunks who come into our EDs just to get a meal and never pay for it or say things like: "My Medicare is paying for this, so give me, give me, give me".

When you are undocumented, you don't get the luxury of medicare or medicaid. When you are undocumented, you work your pants off and pay taxes because it gives you a good record in case this mighty country finds it in their heart to "allow" you to live here.

Americans cannot survive without the cheap labor immigrants provide.

What are you gonna do? pull the plug and throw them out back?

:oornt::sasq: :yldhdbng: :igtsyt:

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Specializes in Cardiac Care, ICU.
I don't think there was any less animosity towards legal immigrants then (or now) that there is towards illegal immigrants now.

Their status as illegal immigrants is related to changes in immigration policy in this country. Immigrants, legal or otherwise, come to this country today for exactly the same reason as most of our ancestors. They are just as human, just as hard working, and just as ambitious as our ancestors.

In other words, it's not their fault that they are "illegal."

It is their "fault" They made a choice to bypass the legal method of entry into this country therefore any consequences are theirs alone to bear.

Thanks.

We have created most of our monsters, then we blame other people for our problems.

I don't apologize for my perspective. I lived in Tehran in 1978, and I've spent a total of two years in Africa (so far). The rest of the world doesn't see things the way most Americans seem to, and neither do I.

That is exactly what you are doing when you say it is not an illegal immigrants fault that they are here illegally. And, as far as the rest of the world not seeing things the way we do, it is not their country. It's easy to tell someone else what is the "right" thing to do when you have nothing to lose. Much of the rest of the world bases their view of the US on movies and our media both of which are not always accurate in how they portray average Americans.

Just food for thought.... Yesterday on my only day off I spent it sitting at the Social Security office attempting at resolving a SERIOUS problem.. .identity theft... someone has used my husbands social security number for the past 4 years and of course the income reported is DOUBLE what he has made each and every year it has been used. . Countless visits to the IRS and Social Security offices later we are no closer to solving the problem. YES, I have been impacted by the ILLEGAL immigration problem. I say ILLEGAL because if they were legal they could have used thier own SS number and not ruined my husbands credit. Of course it could be a legal resident right????? So yes I can see how our hospitals are being overburdened by this problem.

Illegal immigration does impact working people. This is just one example. BTW, anyone who believes that II's only take jobs Americans don't want should talk to my brother-in-law who is finding it harder and harder to make a living as a dry waller b/c contractors can pay II's less.

I hope everything works out w/ the IRS for you Irish.

Exactly!

Debate: a: the formal discussion of a motion before a deliberative body according to the rules of parliamentary procedure. b: a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides

- Webster's

We've been debating since the 80's when Reagan gave amnesty to the II's in country at the time and even before that. At some point we have to channel all the talk into some action. I'm okay w/ shelving the talk of deportation if, in the meantime, we can stop the flow of illegals coming across the border. It is no less than what Mexico is doing on their southern border.

aeauooo,

I agree with the entirety of the rest of your post, but thought I should point out to all reading that unlawful status in the US is a civil charge, not a criminal one. As is a speeding ticket. Whether you or I or anyone else likes it or not, that's the way it is. Unlawful status in the US is not a crime, any more than a speeding ticket is.

Also, I personally am offended at the term 'anchor baby.' I am sure that if anyone were to see my son, that would be the last thing that would come to mind, but his father is here illegally. I for one cannot grind the immigration debate into the face of a preschooler. And my husband is the best father I could ask for my child.

We are in the process of trying to straighten his stuff out, but there is something wrong when a person who is married to a US citizen, owns property here, pays taxes, and speaks English cannot adjust his/her status. It is going to cost us in the thousands of dollars (which we do not have) and even then, unless the law changes, there is no guarantee that things will go the way we'd like. There is something wrong with that. Unless there is real reform, threads like this are always going to pop up.

One other thought: people who come here from Cuba generally get here the same way illegal immigrants do - they come w/out visas. Only, the US government rewards Cubans while punishing other folks from other nationalities. I'm sorry, but that's not fair. When it is equally easy or equally difficult for good people of all nationalities to get here, then you'll hear me quit squawking so loudly.

Elvish, I really hope things work out for you. Your husband, obviously, is not the problem - illegal immigration and its cost to this country is.

I can't go to New Zealand and expect them to let me stay there just b/c I managed to get in their country.

Fine, fine...

Now, what are the numbers of the many legal citizens who pour into our healthcare system (read county/state hospitals and facilities) who are uninsured and also costing us millions of dollars? and what about the drunks who come into our EDs just to get a meal and never pay for it or say things like: "My Medicare is paying for this, so give me, give me, give me".

When you are undocumented, you don't get the luxury of medicare or medicaid. When you are undocumented, you work your pants off and pay taxes because it gives you a good record in case this mighty country finds it in their heart to "allow" you to live here.

Americans cannot survive without the cheap labor immigrants provide.

What are you gonna do? pull the plug and throw them out back?

:oornt::sasq: :yldhdbng: :igtsyt:

American can survive w/o II labor. I saw a report on the news just the other day about teenagers not being able to find summer jobs b/c so many adults were picking up second jobs. I'm not suggesting that teens could or should do all the jobs II's do now but there are obviously a lot of folks looking for a few extra dollars who don't mind talking unglamorous low paying jobs.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.

Wrong. This country was created by immigrants and emigrants, but to state that it was created by ILLEGAL immigrants is:

1. generalizing (you are stating EVERYONE was an illegal immigrant?) and

The ones who created the country were.

2. after Lincoln freed the slaves, they were free to travel back to their countries of origin but CHOSE to stay in America.

You cannot be serious. Now you and I are going to have end the discussion of this issue right here because this comment shows a complete ignorance of history. How could they travel back to their country when a)most of them had no idea what that was since their culture and language had been stripped from them b)most people are a mixture having been born of people from different countries, not to mention the impracticalities of what you are suggesting. It's laughable.

Every country on the planet has been "stolen", sold, and stolen again. What's your point. Are you insinuating that your people are the ONLY ones who have been wronged in the history of mankind? That's a bit arrogant, don't you think?

At first I thought you were deliberately missing my point but it's clear that you just don't get it. This is not about who was wronged or who was wronged the worst. One more time for you: it's hypocritical to talk about how this country was built by people who entered the country "legally", who did everything "right" to achieve their citizenship when the history of this country states otherwise. It's something to consider for those who harp and harp on the "illegal". No you don't have to open the borders and let everyone in, that would be impractical. But let's talk about practical solutions that can ease the path to citizenship, punish those who use them for slave labor while providing nothing in the way of benefits and providing support for hospitals in affected areas so that they don't have to close down under the crush of immigrant care (even though it has been proved that immigrants access the health care system LESS than non-immigrants). They need more neighborhood clinics and they need to be encouraged to seek preventative care so that when they do seek health care, it is not an emergency and it is less expensive.

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American can survive w/o II labor. I saw a report on the news just the other day about teenagers not being able to find summer jobs b/c so many adults were picking up second jobs. I'm not suggesting that teens could or should do all the jobs II's do now but there are obviously a lot of folks looking for a few extra dollars who don't mind talking unglamorous low paying jobs.

The day I see you doing migrant work I'll believe it. Not only would we not survive without cheap, illegal labor. Our economy would fail horribly.

To believe otherwise just shows an ignorance of economics.

Someone said their DH has trouble getting work as a drywaller because of illegal aliens. Illegal aliens are not why he can't get a job. The failing economy is. Maybe if the DH invest edin an education to learn a skill that is not just simple labor he could get a job.

II's fill positions in unskilled labor. As Americans with the oppurtunities these people don't have, maybe we should stop being lazy and get educations. No nurses are losing their jobs to II's. Doctors aren't, engineers aren't, electricians aren't.

Seems to me people would rather moan and whine and blame II's than actually look at their own choices. Get an education.

The other point I would like to make is that the majority of people actually complaining about II's, and you can do your own research on this, largely fall into a single group. I won't identify this group but everyone will see who this group is just by watching them protest on TV or irl. It's also the same group of people that said to many Italians were immigrating, then too many Irish, the objected to the numbers of African Americans, then Hispanics and now others. Some things never do change in this country. Obama notwithstanding.

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Specializes in cardiac ICU.

I can't help but think that people who get so upset about, for example, a few undocumented immigrants who require very costly care that pushes small hopsitals into insolvency are missing the bigger picture. Why, in one of the richest countries in the world, are SO MANY of our hospitals operating on the brink of insolvency in the first place? Hospitals are a very basic part of the infrastructure of any civilized nation, and we're operating like a Third World country in this respect. A few people who can't pay for things like organ transplants are a symptom of a much larger problem.

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