So, tonight I was talking about the classes I'll be taking this fall at my local community college (one of which is chemistry which I'm a little nervous about since I've never had a chemistry class before) with my wonderful bachelor's degree holding partner who, in an attempt to ease my anxiety makes the comment "Well, it's just at a community college so the class should be pretty easy." Wrong thing to say honey...
It did however get me to thinking about the general attitudes that people have towards not only community colleges but also to vocational/trade schools. That those of us who go to such institutions are intellectually inadequate and wouldn't be able to handle the academic rigors of a 4 year college or university. This attitude is completely inaccurate, after all if my classes were so EASY then the 4 year colleges and universities in my area wouldn't have an articulation agreement which honors the credits I take at the community college. It is a different atmosphere in a community college of course, but that doesn't mean I don't have to learn the material and learn it well in order to pass.
I remember in high school when I decided to enter the Practical Nursing program at the vocational school how I received criticism, statements such as "Well, you need to go to a 4 year college, anything less is for people who are stupid." and even now when I tell people I'm an LPN and that I've been at a community college taking classes I'm greeted with a concerned expression, a half smile, and a polite nod. A voice bubble might as well pop up above their head saying, "Well, since you're a failure at life and this is all you have, I'll be happy for you." after all since I'm going to a community college it means I can't handle REAL academics.
It may sound as though I'm jealous of those who get to receive a university education and have a bachelor's degree or above and are the same age as myself. And, yes, at times I am jealous because I would have loved to have had the same experience. But that simply just wasn't my path, one day I will "pull my time" in a four year college, my path will take me there, just not yet.
I believe no matter your credentials, whether you're doctorate degree holding FNP or a certificate holding CNA that you should be incredibly proud. Whether you're bachelor's prepared RN or a diploma holding LPN you should be proud. Because all levels of education should be revered and respected and valued. I don't feel ashamed of not already being a Registered Nurse or a college graduate nor do I have any regret at first becoming a CNA and then becoming an LPN because I still am helping people and I am still living my dream and that dream was to be independent. If you're a BSN or an ADN be PROUD of it no matter what your credentials are because you earned them.
College graduates face really discouraging odds. Many are unemployed, many more are employed in something other than their field of study, and many still are up to their eyeballs in debt. My partner for instance has a bachelor's degree yet works in job making a little over minimum wage. That is why I chose the path I did. When I was 17 and I enrolled in the LPN program, I knew due to my personal and financial circumstances that I couldn't afford to go to college just yet, I needed to be self sufficient and going to a trade school and later to a community college would allow me to do that. It wasn't the right choice for everyone but it was for me, and because of that I can pay for my school one semester at a time while minimizing and most semesters avoiding student loans, not to mention a few years head start on 401k versus my peers and that feels really good.
A dear friend of mine always wanted to be a mechanic, her family, peers, etc were not supportive "only stupid people do something like that" so instead she got 2 bachelor's degrees, is jobless, and owes thousands of dollars in student loans. All this because her dream was too "stupid" in the eyes of her parents and everyone else. Side not, I know many mechanics who make more money than I do and they're all pretty happy. I think the attitude that you go to college to "make a better life for yourself" isn't always accurate. We shouldn't be telling our children that they have to go to college in order to be considered intelligent or successful. We should be telling them that in this world success isn't defined by your credentials or where you went to school or how much money you make, it's defined by getting out of life what you make of it and what you want from it. Do what you love people, whether you're a CNA or a Medical Doctor, do what you love and love what you do and be proud but above all else never assume that someone is stupid simply because their education is different from yours.
Whew... feels good to get that out.
Oh and my partner quickly apologized for what he said. Probably had something to do with the fact I spouted off this little speech in the course of sixty seconds after his comment.
Specializes in Pediatrics, Lactation, Case Management.
I have an ADN in nursing and my son is currently attending a university. He and I frequently discuss his classes. My son made the HUGE mistake of commenting on the fact that MY chemistry class that I took at a CC was not as difficult as HIS chemistry because he was taking it at a university. He went on to explain that ALL university classes were much more difficult at the university level than at a CC level. Ok...once I talked myself out of choking the last breath out of him...I calmly (ok...not so calmly or quietly) explained to him that his CC educated parents (my husband has an associate's as well) were sole supporting him. He was living in an apartment and not in a dorm, he did not have to work through college like so many of his friends, he has a nice paid for truck, etc... I gave him the choice of supporting himself through his "university life" or letting his CC educated parents help him. Needless to say he chose the latter. He has not brought it up again, but I do on a regular basis.
There's certainly no shame in attending a CC - it's actually a smart choice if it's the most economical choice to achieve your career goals. I attending a 4 year university and have a B.S. that I never put to good use. 12 years later I completed my ADN at a CC. However, I have to say I found my CC classes to be quite a bit easier than when I was working on my B.S. However that could also be because I've matured over the years (it's difficult to do well in class when you only show up for the final ).
I can say I have noticed the same thing over the last decade of taking classes and its DEFINITELY because I matured quite a bit in that time.
I don't think it's the fact that community college people (our TAFEs are the same in Oz I think) are not smarter than university people, it's just that at university we are not spoon fed much - you have to be incredibly motivated to do a lot of your own study and research, and give up the time to do that. Especially if ur full time and you study externally like I did. I studied every day, rain or shine, and put off going to outings etc, to study.
Maybe in a way university DOES make you smarter, because it's supposed to stimulate your thinking in different ways - and that is just the start of your uni education! I think it also matures you in a way - though I wonder about some people.
Do what makes you happy - not everyone else, otherwise if u run around trying to please everyone, you end up miserable and ur mental health will suffer.
If I read your post correctly you are from Australia (Oz)? Sorry if I am wrong with that by the way. :)
But, community colleges here definitely do not spoon feed you anything. It's usually the universities that do that funny enough. And with all the classes I have taken it seems to come back to the professor that you get. You will get good ones and bad ones wherever you go. However, the ones that work at community colleges tend to NOT be full time academians and instead have day jobs. They pick up a class or two per semester to teach because they love teaching. I was telling a friend of mine who is in a PA program at the university about my A&P professors. For A&P I my professor's day job was as a neurophysiologist; he was the guy in the OR making sure the surgeons didn't screw up the brain surgery. My A&P II professor worked as a thoracic surgeon in a level 1 trauma center (that's the highest rating for for a trauma hospital in my state). Both classes were all day saturday classes (we only met one day a week but it was from 9am until 3:30pm with lecture from 9-12 and lab from 1230-3:30) and both of these professors would work full work weeks (a lot of times working the overnight the night before and showing up in their OR scrubs) then commute an hour or more to teach us.
These guys were all about us being motivated learners. They told us flat out on the first day that they expect us to keep up with the required reading, get ahead in it as much as possible, do any and all extra assignments made available, and study every day. They were very clear that they expected us to know most of the material from what we did outside of class. These professors viewed what they did for us in class as a review and reinforcement of what we learned on our own and they were there to answer questions and fill in the blanks when we could not figure it out independently. Talk about high expectations.
But I will tell you that I think I learned more in those two classes than I had in any of my previous ones. And I have taken some pretty technical courses in my day.
I made $60,000 and a $8,000 bonus to boot at my previous job in finance (not accounting, just being a regular ol' marketing person) but...it wasn't fulfilling and people would freak out over something that did not concern life and death. It just was truly meaningless to me with people getting fired over "I don't like that you wear a lot of makeup". So I left to freelance pulling in probably $20k now so that I could take my pre-requisites.
Anyway, my point is that if I'm going to get stressed out (and get paid for it), I'd rather spend my time helping someone than sitting at my desk pretending to work while surfing the web like those yahoos did. =)
Specializes in Adult and Pediatric Vascular Access, Paramedic.
They wont think you are stupid when you have 15,000 of student debt, maybe even less and they have 60,000 + of debt and if they are a staff nurse are getting paid the same as you salary wise!
In my humble oppinion better to go for you ADN and try out nursing before investing 4 years of your life and you hard earned money to pay for it! Not to mention you can work as an RN and take your time obtaining your BSN...
I agree with a lot of what you said, but most courses at most CC are certainly less rigorous than the same courses at most Universities.
To which I say, where is your documentation of this? Where is your proof?
I've gone to a two year community college, I've gone to a state university and now I'm attending a private university. What I have seen is that the difficulty of the class pretty well equates to the level of the class, regardless of institution. This is why there are transfer credits; the whole point is to recognize that various different experiences convay similar mastery of the subject. Yes, the master's level nursing theory is more difficult than the BSN level nursing theory class. But A&P are pretty much the same where every you take them.
I do agree that some folks who have a BSN look down on those of us who are diploma grads or ADN grads. I've got news, The 3 year diploma program I attended was very hard, but now that they have changed to a 2 year program-It's really rough. I took my prerequisites at the local University and was in the same classes as the pre-med students and everyone else. We also took our classes at the U. at the same time as our nursing. This means that for the first year and a half, I was carrying like 16-24 credits a semester.
I have a BA and MA from very well respected 4-year schools. I recently went back to school and got my ADN at a community college. I have to say that the CC nursing program was, by far, the most academically challenging thing that I have ever done. Plus, now that I'm working, I'm making nearly twice the salary with an associate's degree than I was previously making with my master's.
People who think of community college as not-real-college are certainly behind the times. Gee, where I live, the community college has the most academically rigorous freshman and sophomore level college courses in the region. The reason for that is they are significantly less expensive ($750 for a 4-credit class w/ a lab vs. over $2200 for the equivalent course at Penn State and even more than $2200 at the two private colleges) and the competition for the pre-nursing and nursing slots is especially fierce. I took microbiology at Penn State and didn't have work very hard to succeed at it. The people who took it at the community college, it was like they were doing a PhD in microbiology or something. That community college's associate degree RN program was also considered much tougher than either of the two diploma RN schools AND also more difficult than the associate degree RN at the Penn State branch campus. The private colleges here don't offer nursing, but they have a rep as "colleges who will take anyone just so they can get some students and stay in business," and a 4.0 from them doesn't carry a lot of credibility, either. So big name does not automatically mean best quality.
As as the OP said, nowadays you have to consider the economic justification or the lack thereof, when picking a school or a program of study. If you know you don't want to stop at LPN or AS or BS or whatever, then it makes financial sense to do the lower rungs of your education as low-cost and fast as you can, and save your money for the higher degrees or certifications.
Just be reading the title, anyone who thinks that is full of bs.
I graduated from a small rural community high school. Most of my classmates went to the CC in another rural town then transferred to a four-year for the last two years. Result?
One of my classmates is the VP of Finance at a company with a name that everyone would know. Another is the CEO of a regional energy company. Another was a business development manager of a creative agency. Another graduated from a four-year with the best GPA of her major and won an award for it. Another has a master's degree in human resources from a well-known eastern university and was an arbitrator during union contract negotiations. About half of those who attended the CC eventually graduated from one of the powerhouse Big Ten schools.
Specializes in Mental health, substance abuse, geriatrics, PCU.
Thanks to everyone who responded! I know my threads are dreadfully long but writing is a hobby of mine so sometimes I write an essay instead of something more appropriate for a forum.
Wrong thing to say honey... 
).
BrewerRN
75 Posts
I have an ADN in nursing and my son is currently attending a university. He and I frequently discuss his classes. My son made the HUGE mistake of commenting on the fact that MY chemistry class that I took at a CC was not as difficult as HIS chemistry because he was taking it at a university. He went on to explain that ALL university classes were much more difficult at the university level than at a CC level. Ok...once I talked myself out of choking the last breath out of him...I calmly (ok...not so calmly or quietly) explained to him that his CC educated parents (my husband has an associate's as well) were sole supporting him. He was living in an apartment and not in a dorm, he did not have to work through college like so many of his friends, he has a nice paid for truck, etc... I gave him the choice of supporting himself through his "university life" or letting his CC educated parents help him. Needless to say he chose the latter. He has not brought it up again, but I do on a regular basis.