I apologize if this is a stupid question, but I really just had to ask
Can a CNA be considered a nurse?
I mean, I have always been led to believe that CNA stood for certified nursing assistant. An assistant to a nurse and not a nurse.
The reason why I ask is because I've ran into quite a few people that say they are nurses, then when I try to go into it more (seeing as I have interest in the nursing field), they say they are CNA's.
But then when I was in the brief period of LVN school and was talking to a CNA, she had no clue about some of the things LVN's did much less RN's.
No flame interpreted, i just thought it was an interesting topic so i checked the statutes (quite frankly, i didn't think there would be any mention of titles and their uses). txspadequeen921 may have been more "flamey" :)
so, just to clarify, by the letter of the law (in wisconsin) you DO believe that LPNs could legally use the term and title of "nurse?"
to be honest, i don't think i've ever hesitated to use the term "nurse" with LPNs...I was just playing devil's advocate in my first post and it turned out an interesting point considering the wording of the statutes. at the LTC facility where I work, LPNs provide 99% of the residents' daily nursing needs (and do it quite well) and easily justify the title of "nurse" (btw, i'm a lowly CNA and still only in nursing school...i'm not a nurse...yet)
ty
First off, NOBODY is a lowly CNA, no such thing. You are TYLER CNA and straighten up, puff out that chest, and hold head high,
will ya.
In answer to your question. Yes LPNs can legally use the term and title of "nurse". TPN, LPN, LA, TA all refer to titles that LPNs may be called depending on where they work. I was known as an RPN (Registered Practical Nurse) prior to becoming an RN.
BTW I responded to your post because it raised some interesting questions concerning how statutes can be interpreted. Nursing student are notoriously known to ask questions that make me have to think and learn something new!
I am a patient care tech, and even though patients often mistake me for their nurse, I ALWAYS correct them. I am currently getting ready to start nursing school, and I know that when I am an RN, I do not want my techs calling themselves nurses, because they haven't gone through the schooling I'm going through right now. Sad thing is, I just started this job as a tech, and I knew a lot more about the "book learning" part of patient care than my preceptor, because I've been through some school in preparation for clinical nursing school, and she hasn't. She knows the techniques, and what to report to the MD or RN, but she knows nothing of the WHY or WHAT DOES IT MEAN of it all. No one who is unlicensed (and no, a CNA license doesn't count) should be representing themselves as a nurse. They give nursing CARE, but do not perform all the duties of a NURSE. I insert foleys, do lab draws, EKGs, etc. but I am NOT a NURSE - not until I finish school and pass the boards. And no one else is either. Frankly, it is discouraging to see how many people think it is okay to misrepresent themselves - and I've heard the excuse "I don't want to confuse the patient and think his NURSE isn't qualified to give his medication either..." What a load of BS. Just people wanting to steal a title that takes time, money, energy and stress to achieve.
First off, NOBODY is a lowly CNA, no such thing. You are TYLER CNA and straighten up, puff out that chest, and hold head high,
will ya.
In answer to your question. Yes LPNs can legally use the term and title of "nurse". TPN, LPN, LA, TA all refer to titles that LPNs may be called depending on where they work. I was known as an RPN (Registered Practical Nurse) prior to becoming an RN.
BTW I responded to your post because it raised some interesting questions concerning how statutes can be interpreted. Nursing student are notoriously known to ask questions that make me have to think and learn something new!
Best of luck with school Tyler.
I totally agree. Tyler, just as we are not "just nurses" you are not "just a *gulp* lowly CNA". We all need to take pride in what we have achieved.
I'd bet the issue of who's a nurse is a little fuzzier than just LPN or RN. What about nurse interns, nurse externs, and graduate nurses? What about a previouly licensed RN who's license has expired (or been revoked)? The LTC facility where I worked used "nurse" interchangeably for LPNs and RNs but their scopes of practice are significantly different. Why should an LPN be allowed to refer to himself as a "nurse"? Is it really on the books that you can't call yourself a "nurse" unless you're a LPN or RN? If it is then sub section b should state that PhDs aren't allowed to use "doctor!"
I'd agree that it would be questionable (at best) for a CNA to tell a pt. that he was a "nurse." The illegality may occur if the CNA misrepresented as a "licensed" or "registered" nurse while employed in a health care setting or went beyond his scope of practice.
Just splitting hairs.
Unfortunately you never know what pt is going to split hairs because he wants to form a lawsuit for one reason or another. You must all protect yourselves from this event. I used to work in a law firm and have decided after 20 years that I want to serve my community as a nurse. What happened to just having self-confidence in your own work? When you completed your certifications and licensures you knew what your title would be. I am purposefully seeking my RN because that is what I want to do and I know the legal ramifications of that position. If you want all of the duties and responsibilities of a nurse then you should continue your education to become one. If that is not possible then stand tall and be proud of who you are and what you do. Each position has been created to give everyone called to healthcare an opportunity to be a part of it and it works out wonderfully because it then frees up everyone to specialize and not to have to wear a bunch of hats (unless you are in a smaller community and do not have that luxury).
:balloons: Stand TALL and rejoice in who you are.:balloons:
Tonight on the unit I addressed this very issue with the CNA'S I was working with. Although I am licenced by the state, They too must be state certified to preform the basis of what is nursing care. There is much debate about whether a CNA is a nurse or not, but I told each of them they are. Because as far as I am concerned, they are doing excellent nusing care, and Florence would be proud. There are many levels and degrees that are learned, and you must stay within your scope of practice. Some institutions allow CNA'S to pass meds, do chemstrips, instill foley caths, any number of things.
I consider CNA'S to be nurses too.
So along the same vein then would you also consider a Physician's assistant a physician?
Nope. I work w/ a PA on my floor, and when the pt's call him "doctor ________" he corrects them. I've also seen a PA in a family med office who didn't refer to herself as doctor, but didn't correct those who did call her doctor.
Same thing. Not a physician, don't call yourself one
Tonight on the unit I addressed this very issue with the CNA'S I was working with. Although I am licenced by the state, They too must be state certified to preform the basis of what is nursing care. There is much debate about whether a CNA is a nurse or not, but I told each of them they are. Because as far as I am concerned, they are doing excellent nusing care, and Florence would be proud. There are many levels and degrees that are learned, and you must stay within your scope of practice. Some institutions allow CNA'S to pass meds, do chemstrips, instill foley caths, any number of things.
I consider CNA'S to be nurses too.
I have to disagree. CNA's work very hard. But... the term NURSE is considered to be a "protected" term in many states. A CNA who states that she is a nurse is actually impersonating a nurse. This is to protect the public, actually... a someone who states that they are a nurse is supposed to be someone who is licensed to practice nursing (LPN, RN) by the state.
All that you just described sounds EXACTLY like my job as an RN, except for 3 things:
1. I get paid better.
2. It's not the CNAs that are run ragged.
3. The RNs get delegated all the disrespect from patients, families, doctors, CNAs, housekeepers, dietary staff, transporters, operators, lab techs, pharmacists, RTs, supervisors, and yes even other nurses, gee I hope I left no one out.
By the way, started in a hospital as a housekeeper, then continued on as an LPN/RPN, then became a RN. Guess what? The grass isn't any greener on the other side, it's just different grass!!!
I was so much happier when I worked as a tech than as a nurse. :stone
Lizz, you're not a nurse, yet. You have to finish NURSING school, take your boards, pass, & apply for licensure. That's when you get to be called a nurse.
I don't know where you work, but you are sadly, sadly mistaken if you think nurses don't also spend days up to their elbows in diarrhea, urine, vomit, & blood. Those things just don't magically disappear once you become a nurse.
"The fact that CNA's aren't officially considered nurses ... even though they perform the duties upon which the profession of nursing was originally founded ... IS a sign of disrepect. It's just another example of how CNA's are dumped on every day."
That argument is just WEAK.
Times have changed. Laws continue to change. Nursing today is not the same as it was 100 yrs ago, or even 20 years ago. How many times do we all get to hear the stories about the way nursing used to be?? No gloves, no personal protective equipment. Just b/c that's how it was when nursing started, doesn't mean we should continue practices that may be detrimental to the health of another pt or ourselves.
I would love to hear what you have to say after you become a licensed nurse, work for a few years, & are running non-stop throughout your shift, chasing doctors to get orders for a critical pt, answering phone calls from concerned family members (yes, we still have to deal with families, too), giving meds, assessing patients, changing dressings, patient teaching, & documenting all of the above, in addition to being up to your elbows in diarrhea, blood, urine, & vomit while the CNA that is assigned to assist in caring for your pts is enjoying his/her lunch break & you haven't even had the opportunity to empty your bladder once during your shift. All this, plus the responsibility of your action, or inaction.
It seems to me that you might be better suited for a career outside of healthcare. You obviously don't seem happy dealing with patients & if you think it will be easier as a nurse, you are living in dreamland.
Excellent post, Tracy. Sometimes, I wonder what new grads today (or the younger nurses) are looking for. They seem so dissatisfied. Maybe it is because they have not had enough training. Many nursing schools today certainly do NOT give their students the dose of reality that they need.
Tonight on the unit I addressed this very issue with the CNA'S I was working with. Although I am licenced by the state, They too must be state certified to preform the basis of what is nursing care. There is much debate about whether a CNA is a nurse or not, but I told each of them they are. Because as far as I am concerned, they are doing excellent nusing care, and Florence would be proud. There are many levels and degrees that are learned, and you must stay within your scope of practice. Some institutions allow CNA'S to pass meds, do chemstrips, instill foley caths, any number of things.
I consider CNA'S to be nurses too.
I think you are way off the mark. I fear you will discover the error of your ways when you acually become an RN.
Excellent post, Tracy. Sometimes, I wonder what new grads today (or the younger nurses) are looking for. They seem so dissatisfied. Maybe it is because they have not had enough training. Many nursing schools today certainly do NOT give their students the dose of reality that they need.
If you give them too much reality, no one would want to do it and many would quit. Too overwhelming I think. If I didn't have at least a little fantasy and Hollywood ideas about nursing mixed in with reality at the time I'd started, I'm not sure I would have gone through with it. (At least I'm honest about it.)
I personally believe that so many new grads are dissatisfied because too many are thrown to the wolves with minimal and substandard orientations and preceptorships and an overall lack of support from the more experienced nurses and their managers who allow it to go on.
Thankfully that never happened to me but I've seen it many times.
It seems to me that you might be better suited for a career outside of healthcare. You obviously don't seem happy dealing with patients & if you think it will be easier as a nurse, you are living in dreamland.
You really have some nerve saying that. How dare you. :angryfire
MY problem is NOT dealing with patients. My problem is getting TOO MANY patients, particularly too many total cares, while being yelled at when I can't get other things like the vitals done on time.
If you give me patients with non-stop diarrhea who have to be cleaned up every five minutes, plus a bunch of patients who can't feed themselves, you make other tasks like getting the vitals done on time impossible. Not to mention ... when the vitals machines break down, no one fixes them for weeks, and there are no working blood pressure cuffs in the hospital ... that also makes the job impossible.
This is what I have been dealing with as a CNA. I can't be at five places at the same time ... but that's what the RN's expect. When I am forced to choose between which patient is fed because the RN's are breathing down my neck and I don't have time to feed them all ... that drives me crazy because I DO care about patients.
Meanwhile, the RN's are insisting I discharge a patient and run a urine sample down to the lab ... all while I'm supposed to keep the non-stop diarrhea patients clean, change the dirty linens, pass all the trays, feed all the feeders, get the vitals done, do a new admit, etc.
And the RN's have the nerve to get PO'd when I can't meet their impossible demands.
The statistical fact in California is that 80 percent of aides quit within the first three months on the job. I didn't make this up. This is data from the state Health Department. IF, in fact, aides aren't disrespected as everybody claims ... why are aides quitting in such high numbers? If the RN's and everybody else is treating them so well then, why don't they stay?
Yeah ... CNA's work under your license. And you can't keep them. What does that say about the RN's? They don't stay because they're treated like dirt. That's a statistical fact.
And, to add insult to injury, they dump on you further with this you're not a nurse nonsense. I don't care what the law says. Under the law, Florence Nightingale isn't a nurse either. Yet, I don't see the history books changing the definition of who she is. It's just another way that CNA's are dumped on. No wonder they don't stick around.
I don't expect the job to be easier as an RN. I never said that. Nor did I say that body fluids magically disappear when you are an RN. So I would appreciate it if you would quit accusing me of saying things I never claimed in the first place.
I WILL, however, respect and help CNA's anyway I can as an RN. Out of the dozens of RNs I have worked with, only one ... one ... has been helpful and understanding the entire time I have been on the job.
You have some nerve judging me and suggesting I don't belong in healthcare. Maybe you don't belong in healthcare with your high and mighty judgmental attitude.
DusktilDawn
1,119 Posts
First off, NOBODY is a lowly CNA, no such thing. You are TYLER CNA and straighten up, puff out that chest, and hold head high,
will ya.
In answer to your question. Yes LPNs can legally use the term and title of "nurse". TPN, LPN, LA, TA all refer to titles that LPNs may be called depending on where they work. I was known as an RPN (Registered Practical Nurse) prior to becoming an RN.
BTW I responded to your post because it raised some interesting questions concerning how statutes can be interpreted. Nursing student are notoriously known to ask questions that make me have to think and learn something new!
Best of luck with school Tyler.