I apologize if this is a stupid question, but I really just had to ask
Can a CNA be considered a nurse?
I mean, I have always been led to believe that CNA stood for certified nursing assistant. An assistant to a nurse and not a nurse.
The reason why I ask is because I've ran into quite a few people that say they are nurses, then when I try to go into it more (seeing as I have interest in the nursing field), they say they are CNA's.
But then when I was in the brief period of LVN school and was talking to a CNA, she had no clue about some of the things LVN's did much less RN's.
if you are not satisfied with your profession go to school. Spend the years studying that we all did. Pay the costs of the school. Deal with the disruption of your families.
As I previously mentioned, I am in nursing school and will become an RN. Besides working as a CNA I also work as a student extern on the RN side. So I have a pretty good sense of what RN's deal with everyday.
But, I still think it's appalling that CNA's are not considered "nurses."
As I previously mentioned, I am in nursing school and will become an RN. Besides working as a CNA I also work as a student extern on the RN side. So I have a pretty good sense of what RN's deal with everyday.
But, I still think it's appalling that CNA's are not considered "nurses."
Why is it appalling? When I think of the word appalling, its more along the lines of a father impregnating his MRDD daughter, soldiers in being burned alive and hung from a bridge, or some of the other horrible things in the world. The word "appalling" doesn't have anything to do with differences in opinion about a job title.
This is yet another reason why I will be quitting my job as a CNA ... this is typical of the disrespect CNA's have to endure day after day. You care for and interact with the patient more than anybody else yet, you're not even considered a "nurse."
Yet, at the end of the day, you're rewarded with complaints that you didn't work hard enough and people who constantly remind you that you deserve no respect because you're not a real "nurse."
I am in nursing school and will be an RN one day. But I will never forget the abuse and disrespect I have experienced as a CNA. I find these kinds of attitudes toward CNA's appalling.
It isn't an attitude or disrespect, IT IS THE LAW!!!!!!!!!
(and exactly what about being an aide is disrespectful?, mind you)
You would not refer to a medical assistant as a doctor, a paralegal as a lawyer, a bailiff as a judge....because that is not what they are. And while all of these can do some of the tasks of the other, that does not mean that they are the other.
As I previously mentioned, I am in nursing school and will become an RN. Besides working as a CNA I also work as a student extern on the RN side. So I have a pretty good sense of what RN's deal with everyday.
But, I still think it's appalling that CNA's are not considered "nurses."
I would gladly consider CNA's nurses when it is:
1. legally recognized.
2. they are legally responsible for their own scope of practice and responsibilities, that it is reasonably expected that they can/should perform these responsiblities and that failure to do so has no bearing on my license.
3. Adopt a "standards of practice" or "general practice expectations" which they adhere to and are answerable for.
As things stand now, if for instance a CNA "forgot" to inform me that a patient's BP was 230/110 and because there was a delay in treatment that resulted in a negative outcome for said patient, I am also accountable. If I take a BP and it is 230/110 and I "forget" to notify the doctor, I alone am responsible for any negative outcome as a result.
A nurse is not only responsible for their own actions, but also the actions of others they may "delegate" to, whether delegating a specific task is appropriate and if the person has demonstrated competence in that specific task, the nurse is responsible to follow-up on actions delegated to others.
As an RN I can accept that a CNA is too busy to accomplish some things that need to be done on any patient assignment, however it is not acceptable by any state BON that an RN is too busy to see to any immediate needs a patient may have that they are assigned.
When I was testing out the waters per se in LVN school and we had our clinicals at the nursing home, we (the lvn students) were first assigned to a CNA to start learning what they do and gradually work our way into what we (as lvn's) did. I ran along right with my CNA, did what she wanted me to do, helped out as much as I could and certainly tried not to disrespect her. All this while my fellow students kept saying that isn't what we really were here for. So, I believe clumping all the LVN/RN's students or not, as being disrespectful is like saying all doctor's are a**holes.
I ask the original question because even though I am not quite into RN school, I love hearing about other's situations. I'm nosey and ask a lot of questions, so as soon as I hear someone with similiar interests such as nursing, I ask. It is aggrevating asking a question regarding nursing school or the profession and hearing "Well, I don't know any of that because even though I said I was a nurse, I'm really a CNA."
Side note, but semi-related:
My husband is going the route through EMT and paramedic :) He ran into a group of people wearing scrubs and asked what they did. One stated they were nurses, but another corrected her. The original one (that stated she was a nurse) also went on to say that she wanted to become a flight paramedic by going through paramedic school and fighting the board about the part requiring that she needed to go through RN school as well. According to my husband, he said that in order to be a flight paramedic (in TX or maybe in this area), you had to be a RN-paramedic. It just irks me that she stated she was a nurse then expected my husband to understand her wanting to fight the RN board.
Specializes in Case Mgmt; Mat/Child, Critical Care.
I'd bet the issue of who's a nurse is a little fuzzier than just LPN or RN. What about nurse interns, nurse externs, and graduate nurses? What about a previouly licensed RN who's license has expired (or been revoked)? The LTC facility where I worked used "nurse" interchangeably for LPNs and RNs but their scopes of practice are significantly different. Why should an LPN be allowed to refer to himself as a "nurse"? Is it really on the books that you can't call yourself a "nurse" unless you're a LPN or RN? If it is then sub section b should state that PhDs aren't allowed to use "doctor!"
I'd agree that it would be questionable (at best) for a CNA to tell a pt. that he was a "nurse." The illegality may occur if the CNA misrepresented as a "licensed" or "registered" nurse while employed in a health care setting or went beyond his scope of practice.
Just splitting hairs.
In answer to your question tyler, LPN's and RN's are nurses. Period. CNA's, nursing assistant, nurse's aides, aides, unlicensed assistive personell, pt care techs, what ever title they are given....they are not nurses. Period. End of discussion. There is no question. If you have a question you need to consult your supervisor and/or the state BON and review your state BON's handbook and guidelines.
The reason for this is: advanced training and ultimately licensing by the state you work in. A true license to practice nursing. One you had to sit for boards, pass and be recognized as a nurse, legally. Not a certificate or a title of your job employment.
This has nothing to do with the job unlicensed personnel actually do or any disrespect at all.
2. they are legally responsible for their own scope of practice and responsibilities, that it is reasonably expected that they can/should perform these responsiblities and that failure to do so has no bearing on my license.
3. Adopt a "standards of practice" or "general practice expectations" which they adhere to and are answerable for.
As things stand now, if for instance a CNA "forgot" to inform me that a patient's BP was 230/110 and because there was a delay in treatment that resulted in a negative outcome for said patient, I am also accountable. If I take a BP and it is 230/110 and I "forget" to notify the doctor, I alone am responsible for any negative outcome as a result.
A nurse is not only responsible for their own actions, but also the actions of others they may "delegate" to, whether delegating a specific task is appropriate and if the person has demonstrated competence in that specific task, the nurse is responsible to follow-up on actions delegated to others.
As an RN I can accept that a CNA is too busy to accomplish some things that need to be done on any patient assignment, however it is not acceptable by any state BON that an RN is too busy to see to any immediate needs a patient may have that they are assigned.
I would like to see that happen as well and I might actually consider going back into an area of nursing where I worked with CNA's again and could actually trust the CNA's I depended on every day.
I've worked with many good ones and like to think that I myself was a good one when I was a CNA, but experience and being a nurse in 5 different states later has taught me that the good ones are in the minority and I've had far too many "forgot to tell you's" and "didn't have time to do's so you'll have to do it's" that I've had to answer for while the CNA clocked out on time and left for the day.
When the day comes that they are held independently accountable for not checking blood sugars, failing to report critical changes and vital signs within a timely manner, not turning patients and breakdown develops in the same way that I'm held accountable for not intervening or reporting things to the MD while I get to say "Well you're a licensed person and you are accountable for all of these things that didn't get done" like my supervisors get to say to me, then I'll gladly call CNA's nurses.
But not while I'm still taking all the heat for not properly delegating or supervising.
The fact that CNA's aren't officially considered nurses ... even though they perform the duties upon which the profession of nursing was originally founded ... IS a sign of disrepect. It's just another example of how CNA's are dumped on every day.
Feeling dumped on and disrespected will not end once your CNA career ends and your RN career begins but I'm sure you've got to be at least somewhat aware of that with the experience your getting now as an extern and a CNA.
It's a very physically and mentally draining job with awful pay and yes I've had my share of thankless nurses as well during my two years of CNA work so I really can't blame you for wanting to quit doing it. But I'm still not getting your wanting to have CNA's recognized as nurses and how it is disrespectful to say otherwise.
Specializes in Emergency, Case Management, Informatics.
CNA's are not legally considered nurses, period. It's not disrepectful to the CNA's. It's simply a statement of fact.
I'm an LPN student. After this quarter, I will start working as a CNA. If a patient calls me nurse, I will tell them that I'm their nursing assistant. As a male nursing student, I get called doctor on occassion (no disrespect to female nursing students -- it just happens). I will correct a patient and let them know I'm a student nurse.
A physician's assistant is not a physician. A veterinary assistant is not a vet. An LPN is not an RN. Know your role, and don't get upset for things being called as they are.
If you're a CNA, and you're upset that you can't be called a nurse, guess what? Go to school to be a nurse!
Then, once you're a nurse, you can cry and moan because you think it's disrespectful that you shouldn't be called a doctor.
I am a current nursing student who also is working toward my state certification to become a CNA.There are many jobs that can fall into this great debate. I have worked for many years for my local school district as a teacher's assistant. Many times being referred to as a teacher. I am teaching but I am an ASSISTANT of the TEACHER. I do not hold a credential nor did I earn the title as I didn't spend 4+ years in college. Someday I will be a nurse. I understand a nursing assistant is an ASSISTANT to the NURSE. I will have earned the title nurse by the completion of my nursing program. I am not offended by the fact that I cannot refer to myself as a nurse. I'm a pretty good cook but I'm not a CHEF. Everyone deserves respect in what they do and for those who have worked hard to earn the title Nurse ,Teacher, etc. I see where they feel passionate about the issue. Keep on caring in all that you do.
CNA's are not legally considered nurses, period. It's not disrepectful to the CNA's. It's simply a statement of fact.
I'm an LPN student. After this quarter, I will start working as a CNA. If a patient calls me nurse, I will tell them that I'm their nursing assistant. As a male nursing student, I get called doctor on occassion (no disrespect to female nursing students -- it just happens). I will correct a patient and let them know I'm a student nurse.
A physician's assistant is not a physician. A veterinary assistant is not a vet. An LPN is not an RN. Know your role, and don't get upset for things being called as they are.
If you're a CNA, and you're upset that you can't be called a nurse, guess what? Go to school to be a nurse!
Then, once you're a nurse, you can cry and moan because you think it's disrespectful that you shouldn't be called a doctor.
I agree. I'm an LNA, and a nursing student. I don't ever refer to myself as a nurse. I'm not.
I also don't refer to myself as an airline pilot. I'm not one of those either!
I also wish people would refer to themselves as what they are. And if they don't like it, go to school and become what you'd like. People do it at any age. I've seen a 63yo man doing his internship to become a Dr!
Specializes in ER, NICU, NSY and some other stuff.
Tonight on the unit I addressed this very issue with the CNA'S I was working with. Although I am licenced by the state, They too must be state certified to preform the basis of what is nursing care. There is much debate about whether a CNA is a nurse or not, but I told each of them they are. Because as far as I am concerned, they are doing excellent nusing care, and Florence would be proud. There are many levels and degrees that are learned, and you must stay within your scope of practice. Some institutions allow CNA'S to pass meds, do chemstrips, instill foley caths, any number of things.
I consider CNA'S to be nurses too.
So along the same vein then would you also consider a Physician's assistant a physician?
Sheri257
3,905 Posts
As I previously mentioned, I am in nursing school and will become an RN. Besides working as a CNA I also work as a student extern on the RN side. So I have a pretty good sense of what RN's deal with everyday.
But, I still think it's appalling that CNA's are not considered "nurses."