I apologize if this is a stupid question, but I really just had to ask
Can a CNA be considered a nurse?
I mean, I have always been led to believe that CNA stood for certified nursing assistant. An assistant to a nurse and not a nurse.
The reason why I ask is because I've ran into quite a few people that say they are nurses, then when I try to go into it more (seeing as I have interest in the nursing field), they say they are CNA's.
But then when I was in the brief period of LVN school and was talking to a CNA, she had no clue about some of the things LVN's did much less RN's.
Whether you think CNA's should be considered nurses or not ....
The sad fact is: RN's will continue to dump on CNA's in whatever fashion they see fit. And patient care will suffer as the CNA's continue to quit in large numbers.
Even if RN's are the only ones who deserve the title "nurse" ... the sad fact is, they can't be doing that great of job because they can't convince 80 percent of the CNA's to stay and work for them. And that compromises patient care, which is supposed to be what really matters.
As for me ... the RN's will have to find someone else to pick on and do their dirty work ... because I'm out. And that's includes the job and this thread.
Specializes in Case Mgmt; Mat/Child, Critical Care.
OK this thread really is getting ridiculous now. While I sympathize w/some of the aides who have posted, the bottom line is.....unlicensed assistive personnel (aide, tech, cna, lna, na, nursing assistant, etc ad nauseum) are not, not , not nurses! Why is this so hard to understand? For anyone who considers this a debate....there is none. Legally only LPN'sand RN's, those who have passed NCLEX and are licensed nurses can call themselves a "nurse". Like somebody else said...why is it so demeaning to be called an aide anyway?
I'm sorry but I have worked all types of jobs while in nursing school, the goal becoming an RN; why in the world would I have bothered to go to college, graduate, hold a degree, take a 2 day exam, receive a license to practice registered nursing and be held professionally liable if all I had to do 15 yrs ago was call myself a "nurse"???? Because I wasn't one! No matter how badly I wanted to be like one, even at times maybe thought I knew as much as some, I was not. And boy, after really working as an RN, I can tell you, there is no way on earth being an aide/asst to the nurse is anything like being an RN. At all. I like to say that being an RN means that you can and sometimes will be responsible for everbody's job from housekeeping to manager of the dept! As an aide there is no way that is ever gonna happen.
Ah, but as they say, ignorance is bliss.....(sigh)
OK...so lets just drop the whole nurse thing. That'd clear things up once and for all. I'm for it!
Oh gosh no - that would start up a whole other huge debate over what to call each of us and we would probably fight over the best name someone came up with
I'm in awe of the CNA's I work with and love them all. We work as a team. We do nursing care for the patients but they are not nurses.
This sorta sounds like one of the arguments I've had with my husband . . .like today I got in the pickup and said "It stinks like B.O. in here". He said "It does not". I said "I smell B.O. and it stinks". And he said "It doesn't stink, it smells like B.O." And I just went arrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhh
You really have some nerve saying that. How dare you. :angryfire
MY problem is NOT dealing with patients. My problem is getting TOO MANY patients, particularly too many total cares, while being yelled at when I can't get other things like the vitals done on time.
If you give me patients with non-stop diarrhea who have to be cleaned up every five minutes, plus a bunch of patients who can't feed themselves, you make other tasks like getting the vitals done on time impossible. Not to mention ... when the vitals machines break down, no one fixes them for weeks, and there are no working blood pressure cuffs in the hospital ... that also makes the job impossible.
This is what I have been dealing with as a CNA. I can't be at five places at the same time ... but that's what the RN's expect. When I am forced to choose between which patient is fed because the RN's are breathing down my neck and I don't have time to feed them all ... that drives me crazy because I DO care about patients.
Meanwhile, the RN's are insisting I discharge a patient and run a urine sample down to the lab ... all while I'm supposed to keep the non-stop diarrhea patients clean, change the dirty linens, pass all the trays, feed all the feeders, get the vitals done, do a new admit, etc.
And the RN's have the nerve to get PO'd when I can't meet their impossible demands.
The statistical fact in California is that 80 percent of aides quit within the first three months on the job. I didn't make this up. This is data from the state Health Department. IF, in fact, aides aren't disrespected as everybody claims ... why are aides quitting in such high numbers? If the RN's and everybody else is treating them so well then, why don't they stay?
Yeah ... CNA's work under your license. And you can't keep them. What does that say about the RN's? They don't stay because they're treated like dirt. That's a statistical fact.
And, to add insult to injury, they dump on you further with this you're not a nurse nonsense. I don't care what the law says. Under the law, Florence Nightingale isn't a nurse either. Yet, I don't see the history books changing the definition of who she is. It's just another way that CNA's are dumped on. No wonder they don't stick around.
I don't expect the job to be easier as an RN. I never said that. Nor did I say that body fluids magically disappear when you are an RN. So I would appreciate it if you would quit accusing me of saying things I never claimed in the first place.
I WILL, however, respect and help CNA's anyway I can as an RN. Out of the dozens of RNs I have worked with, only one ... one ... has been helpful and understanding the entire time I have been on the job.
You have some nerve judging me and suggesting I don't belong in healthcare. Maybe you don't belong in healthcare with your high and mighty judgmental attitude.
:angryfire
I may be wrong here ...so please tell me if i am...but don't you have to be a CNA for some specified amount of time to get into nursing school in CA...so if 80 percent of CNA's are quitting ...well why the HUGE waiting lists in CA nursing schools. If you have a job in which you feel so disrespected perhaps you should work somewhere else! When CNA's get a college education and pass the state boards....THEN THEY CAN CALL THEMSELVES A NURSE. It requires school and a license!
I may be wrong here ...so please tell me if i am...but don't you have to be a CNA for some specified amount of time to get into nursing school in CA...so if 80 percent of CNA's are quitting ...well why the HUGE waiting lists in CA nursing schools. If you have a job in which you feel so disrespected perhaps you should work somewhere else! When CNA's get a college education and pass the state boards....THEN THEY CAN CALL THEMSELVES A NURSE. It requires school and a license!
You don't have to be a CNA to get into most nursing schools in California. I went to nursing school when I was 38 with NO background in the medical field.
Specializes in Med-Surg, Geriatric, Behavioral Health.
This is riveting! What we are talking about here is apples and oranges, no, I prefer apples (nurses) and peaches (CNAs)...
But, like it or not, they're (CNAs) not apples.
I try hard to be the very best CNA I can be.
If I want to be a nurse, I will go back to school and meet the requirements.
Well said, even if I did edit the quote here. I really think this says it all, folks! They are NOT the same.
How can I say this any other way than this thread is really :deadhorse.
There is nothing wrong with debate...as long as it is Friendly! This thread has stopped being friendly, but has turned very ugly of late. I'm sorry, but this thread is being temporarily closed due to the boxing gloves. Let's use this time as a "cooling down" period. When it becomes open later on, please remember why it was initially closed. Thanks.
Specializes in Med-Surg, Geriatric, Behavioral Health.
I gave the thread just slightly a little more than a week to "cool down".
As a friendly reminder, I value CNAs/PCAs...they work very hard for what they do. I also value the LPNs and other RNs I work with too...they also work very hard for what they do. Some or alot of our job functions may overlap...depending on the facility and the state we work in.
There is an Art and a Science to Nursing. Much of the overlap occurs in the Art. However, the Science is quite often what separates us. We need to respect those who provide the Art, as well as respect those who have a little bit more of the Science/Knowledge Base. There is no need to slam each other IMHO. So, I hope everyone is cooled down by now.
I think that this is a great thread! It - obviously - has hit some nerves! I think that what Liz - and many other people - go through in medicine is common. One gets trained to do a job, performs that job, and becomes good enough at it that one can do many of the skills of their superiors. Unfortunately, one has to go through the education to be allowed to do the job. It's similar to the 20-year staff nurse, who has to orient new medical students/residents. She may know more about that unit's pts than any of those fresh-faced MD's, but she is considered lower on the food chain. If she wants the title, respect, and responsibilties of an MD, she need to go through the training. Similarly, if a CNA wants to call herself nurse, she needs to go through the training.
As far as not being treated with respect - the CNA job sucks! Those of you that hate it, go through with the training so you can move up the food chain! Good Luck!
NO! A CNA is not a nurse. They are an essential part of the health care team. CNA's report to LPN's and RN's and only do what is delegated to them. They cannot assess the patient, give meds, or do teaching with the patients. The CNA's that I work with are allowed to do ADL's with "stable patients" only, do vitals, collect I/O, help stock supplies. Please remember that what a nurse delegates to a CNA is still the nurse's responsiblity to check and make sure the patient is receiving proper care.
Plus I believe that CNA's are considered to be "non-licensed nursing assistants", their program is only 75 hours and they receive a certificate, not a license when they are finished with their program. CNA's do not take the same boards that LPN's and RN's are required to take, plus we have an actual degree from college when we are done.
Again, CNA's are great help to the nurse's, I couldn't do my job with them, but they are NOT nurses.
Valiere RN
I apologize if this is a stupid question, but I really just had to ask
Can a CNA be considered a nurse?
I mean, I have always been led to believe that CNA stood for certified nursing assistant. An assistant to a nurse and not a nurse.
The reason why I ask is because I've ran into quite a few people that say they are nurses, then when I try to go into it more (seeing as I have interest in the nursing field), they say they are CNA's.
But then when I was in the brief period of LVN school and was talking to a CNA, she had no clue about some of the things LVN's did much less RN's.
You have NO idea what a nurse does until you have walked in our shoes! CNA's are not NURSES....they are important to the health care team, but they have no where near the responsiblity or education that nurses have. When you have been through school and taken the boards then you will have EARNED the title of nurse....until then you are a nursing assistant. :argue:
As I previously mentioned, I am in nursing school and will become an RN. Besides working as a CNA I also work as a student extern on the RN side. So I have a pretty good sense of what RN's deal with everyday.
But, I still think it's appalling that CNA's are not considered "nurses."
The art science analogy is so true. As a CNA, it is shocking what I don't know, and it is even more shocking when I realize how much less I knew 10 years ago!
I always clarify to pt and families, I am an aide, not a nurse. No medical knowlege here.
Sheri257
3,905 Posts
Whether you think CNA's should be considered nurses or not ....
The sad fact is: RN's will continue to dump on CNA's in whatever fashion they see fit. And patient care will suffer as the CNA's continue to quit in large numbers.
Even if RN's are the only ones who deserve the title "nurse" ... the sad fact is, they can't be doing that great of job because they can't convince 80 percent of the CNA's to stay and work for them. And that compromises patient care, which is supposed to be what really matters.
As for me ... the RN's will have to find someone else to pick on and do their dirty work ... because I'm out. And that's includes the job and this thread.