I apologize if this is a stupid question, but I really just had to ask
Can a CNA be considered a nurse?
I mean, I have always been led to believe that CNA stood for certified nursing assistant. An assistant to a nurse and not a nurse.
The reason why I ask is because I've ran into quite a few people that say they are nurses, then when I try to go into it more (seeing as I have interest in the nursing field), they say they are CNA's.
But then when I was in the brief period of LVN school and was talking to a CNA, she had no clue about some of the things LVN's did much less RN's.
A. It shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor for any person to:
1. Practice nursing under the authority of a license or record illegally or fraudulently obtained or signed or issued unlawfully or under fraudulent representation;
2. Practice nursing unless licensed to do so under the provisions of this chapter;
3. Knowingly employ an unlicensed person as a professional or practical nurse or knowingly permit an unlicensed person to represent himself as a professional or practical nurse;
4. Use in connection with his name any designation tending to imply that he is a professional nurse or a practical nurse unless duly licensed to practice under the provisions of this chapter;
and
Any person who holds a license or a multistate licensure privilege to practice professional nursing in Virginia shall have the right to use the title "registered nurse" and the abbreviation "R.N." No other person shall assume such title or use such abbreviation or any other words, letters, signs or devices to indicate that the person using the same is a registered nurse.
If you are that unhappy (with responsibility it would seem) then maybe you should get out of nursing altogether.
Did I say I was unhappy with the responsibility? BETSRN, don't jump to conclusions. Or be hateful, for that matter. Get an attitude check! Maybe we need nicer people in nursing... and the hateful ones need to get out of nursing altogether!
Oh! I thought this was a picture of another word for a donkey, and the smiley faces were kissing it, and it was a clever way of saying.....well, never mind.
Oh! I thought this was a picture of another word for a donkey, and the smiley faces were kissing it, and it was a clever way of saying.....well, never mind.
Right over my head~~~~~~~
I just read this entire freakin' thread. That was the best post yet. :rotfl:
About the OP's question? We all care for our patients, so we are all nurses. None of us are repected enough for who we are and what we do. So, what was the question?
Oh! I thought this was a picture of another word for a donkey, and the smiley faces were kissing it, and it was a clever way of saying.....well, never mind.
Fine ... let's talk about the responsibilities. Because when you look at the responsibilities, it's pretty obvious that CNA's are, in fact, nurses.
RN's are responsible for the CNA's. If the CNA's weren't there the RN's would have to do the same duties. CNA's do what RN's would have to do anyway because, by extension, CNA's are doing nursing care. Yet, they're not nurses?
As an RN I will still consider CNA's nurses because they are, in fact, doing the nursing care that RN's would have to do if the CNA's weren't there.
I now know why I am glad that I work primary care and don't deal with CNAs. I don't have to worry about the egos being bruised from title issues and people that feel that it is appropriate to misrepresent themselves.
Mind you, I don't have anything against techs, but would rather do the work myself so that I don't have to deal with this garbage of who works harder and who does what. I also know what kind of care my patient gets and what their status is.
So, Liz, say you or a loved one gets shot in the chest. The surgeon is busy so I suppose you will be perfectly fine if the the medical assistant or the surgical assistant operates instead, because after all, "they do the same job when the surgeon/doctor is busy" therefore they are doctors/surgeons.
That's not entirely true. I expect that a CNA has at least some nursing judgement such as:
1. Not feeding a patient while they are slouched down in the bed or head flat
2. Not taking BP's in arms that have a dialysis access
3. Watching lines and tubes while turning someone when bathing or changing linens so they don't get pulled out in the turning process
4. Understanding that if you walk into a room and see that a patient has pulled their trach or central line out whether you should get help right away or wait until you've finished taking all of your vital signs.
5. Understanding that if you take an accu-check and it is very low with a patient telling you he feels funny whether you should tell the nurse right away or after you come back from lunch.
All of the nursing tasks that you've listed require nursing judgement on some level, most lay people would not undertstand these things or react appropriately unless maybe they've had experience taking care of a loved one so nursing judgement is definitely involved here.
No it doesn't make you a licensed nurse because you can competently perform all of these tasks but I'm not comfortable with the way you've oversimplified the importance of these nursing tasks.
Having an "Anybody can do this job" kind of attitude (in addition to the poor pay and high workload) is one of the biggest reasons that facilities have so many bad CNA's and why I hopefully won't ever again have to work in an area where I have to depend on them for help as I've been burned many times by some.
It's obvious to me that not anyone can do this job even though some managers will literally hire anyone to do it.
It requires among many other things, but most of all, sound judgement and the ability to prioritize, and I've worked with some (not all) who posess neither quality and have no business taking care of patients.
I could also say the same about some RN's and LVN's I've worked with.
BTW Lizz, tell us about the type of unit you work on, how many patients you are assigned to and the level of care required of them on a typical day such as how many need to be fed, how many are non-ambulatory or incontinent, confused climbing out of bed types, etc. because maybe everyone could get a better picture of where you are coming from.
Thank you. You have probably made the point better than I ever could. CNA's are expected to do a lot in the sense of letting the RN's know what's going on. If you don't know what to watch for or what's important, then it doesn't get taken care of.
If a patient tells me they haven't gotten their insulin shot while I'm serving lunch ... do I tell the RN or do I keep serving because I'm just a CNA and I have to get the trays out on time. Of course, I tell the RN but, hey, that's not nursing care. Neither is telling the RN when the IV is blown or when it's running dry. Or calling dietary when the wrong diet is sent to the wrong patient. Afterall ...it doesn't matter if the diabetic eats all that sugar. Nah ... that's not nursing care.
And you're right. The only people who stay are the lousy CNA's who don't do the job. I actually understand why they don't do the job because, it can literally drive you insane. But I can't do that in good conscience. And the lousy CNA's don't get fired because the hospital is always short. Management will pretty much hire anybody because they can't keep most of them.
I work in Med-Surg. I always have 12-13 patients. I usually have at least two total cares, often as many as six. The assignments are totally random and you do go in every day praying you don't have too many total cares. But even if you don't have too many total cares, those numbers are misleading.
Quite frankly, even one total care can screw the entire day, depending on how bad it is. Patients who are constantly setting off bed alarms or are screaming can take a huge amount of time. Patients who come in continent will quickly become incontinent once they are pumped with so many drugs and the endless diarrhea starts. If they've just got out of surgery and can barely walk with diarrhea then you essentially have a total care even with a supposedly continent patient.
Then you get the demanding patients who should be independent, but they start screaming if you don't answer their every whim. You know the type. They expect four star hotel service and they'll complain to everybody. They'll even get the doctors on your case. Technically they're not total cares but, in reality, they are.
Anyway ... I'll be quitting this week and it will all be over soon. The RN's will have to find some other CNA to beat up for a change. I'm done.
I now know why I am glad that I work primary care and don't deal with CNAs. I don't have to worry about the egos being bruised from title issues and people that feel that it is appropriate to misrepresent themselves.
So, Liz, say you or a loved one gets shot in the chest. The surgeon is busy so I suppose you will be perfectly fine if the the medical assistant or the surgical assistant operates instead, because after all, "they do the same job when the surgeon/doctor is busy" therefore they are doctors/surgeons.
Good Luck!
That's ridiculous and you know it. I never said nor implied such a thing.
For crying out loud. If you're going to criticize me, at least read the previous posts. I specifically stated that I think it is wrong for CNA's to violate the law and call themselves nurses, even though I disagree with the law.
It has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with patient care. READ the previous posts before you jump to inaccurate conclusions.
Fine ... let's talk about the responsibilities. Because when you look at the responsibilities, it's pretty obvious that CNA's are, in fact, nurses.
RN's are responsible for the CNA's. If the CNA's weren't there the RN's would have to do the same duties. CNA's do what RN's would have to do anyway because, by extension, CNA's are doing nursing care. Yet, they're not nurses?
As an RN I will still consider CNA's nurses because they are, in fact, doing the nursing care that RN's would have to do if the CNA's weren't there.
Wow, this thread is absolutely amazing! I have to say I'm truly shocked at the disagreements.
I do not think CNA's are nurses. There is a strict and limited legal definition of the term "nurse" and CNA's do not fit that role.
The argument above doesn't hold any water. If it did, then when a lawyer's legal secretary goes home sick and the lawyer has to type up his own briefs and do all the other work she usually does, then that means the legal secretary is a lawyer. It doesn't matter if she didn't go to school or earn a degree or pass the Bar Exam . . . if he is forced to do her work because she isn't there, then hey, she is a lawyer.
To say that because a nurse helps out and takes a patient to the bathroom, or empties a bedpan, or gives a patient a shower then the CNA must be a nurse makes no sense.
Fine ... let's talk about the responsibilities. Because when you look at the responsibilities, it's pretty obvious that CNA's are, in fact, nurses.
RN's are responsible for the CNA's. If the CNA's weren't there the RN's would have to do the same duties. CNA's do what RN's would have to do anyway because, by extension, CNA's are doing nursing care. Yet, they're not nurses?
As an RN I will still consider CNA's nurses because they are, in fact, doing the nursing care that RN's would have to do if the CNA's weren't there.
Per your own "logic" that is what you are saying.
MDs are responsible for the medical assistant. When the MA is not there, the MD does her own vitals, weights and positioning of the patient. Therefore per YOUR logic, The MA does what the MD would have to do anyway...because by extension, MAs are doing medical care.
Surgeons are responsible for the surgical assistant. When the surgical assistant is not there, the surgeon or an assisting surgeon must do those duties. Therefore per YOUR logic, the SA does what a surgeon would have to do anyway....because by extension, SAs are doing surgery.
That's ridiculous and you know it. I never said nor implied such a thing.
It has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with patient care. READ the previous posts before you jump to inaccurate conclusions.
Afterall ... you're RNs. Certainly you can read.
We are using your words and logic. If you do not like what they say, perhaps you should consider the source.
I have read the posts. It is very rude to say something condescending ("lazy RNs", "READ the previous posts", "Certainly you can read") because others disagree with your opinion, and it demeans you, not us.
HappyNurse2005, RN
1,640 Posts
from the VA BON site, laws regarding nursing:
and