I apologize if this is a stupid question, but I really just had to ask
Can a CNA be considered a nurse?
I mean, I have always been led to believe that CNA stood for certified nursing assistant. An assistant to a nurse and not a nurse.
The reason why I ask is because I've ran into quite a few people that say they are nurses, then when I try to go into it more (seeing as I have interest in the nursing field), they say they are CNA's.
But then when I was in the brief period of LVN school and was talking to a CNA, she had no clue about some of the things LVN's did much less RN's.
Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.
Nobody is trying to disrespect you. CNA's have a valuable place in health care .... However, just because you care for somebody does not make you a nurse.
This is yet another reason why I will be quitting my job as a CNA ... this is typical of the disrespect CNA's have to endure day after day. You care for and interact with the patient more than anybody else yet, you're not even considered a "nurse."
The hospital/facility assigns you too many patients where it's impossible give adequate care. Nevertheless, you run yourself ragged trying to satisfy the patients, the families, the RNs, the doctors, etc. ... all for a measily wage.
All day long you are up to your elbows in diarrhea, urine, vomit, blood .... all of the nasty things that nobody else wants to deal with ...
Yet, at the end of the day, you're rewarded with complaints that you didn't work hard enough and people who constantly remind you that you deserve no respect because you're not a real "nurse."
In my home state of California 80 percent of CNA's quit within the first few weeks on the job. Well ... I certainly understand why and I'll be joining them.
I am in nursing school and will be an RN one day. But I will never forget the abuse and disrespect I have experienced as a CNA. I find these kinds of attitudes toward CNA's appalling.
Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.
Florence would drop dead again is she heard this non-sense. You have just instructed your bunch to break the law ,break the law and then break the law again. How many of you get quarterly news letters from your board? I do, and each time we have a whole list of imposters that pretend to be nurses with no license. Yes, CNA's are valuable and I have the upmost respect for mine and we work as a team... But LAWD , I worked my A$$ off trying to get through nursing school and cram all that pharm and med surg in my head. The knowledge base is very different as well as responsibilities .
Tonight on the unit I addressed this very issue with the CNA'S I was working with. Although I am licenced by the state, They too must be state certified to preform the basis of what is nursing care. There is much debate about whether a CNA is a nurse or not, but I told each of them they are. Because as far as I am concerned, they are doing excellent nusing care, and Florence would be proud. There are many levels and degrees that are learned, and you must stay within your scope of practice. Some institutions allow CNA'S to pass meds, do chemstrips, instill foley caths, any number of things.
Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.
Ok, then explain the reasons you feel CNA's need to be considered nurses. I would imagine when you do become a nurse and gain the responsiblity of a RN you will not feel this way...
As I previously mentioned, I am in nursing school and will become an RN. Besides working as a CNA I also work as a student extern on the RN side. So I have a pretty good sense of what RN's deal with everyday.
But, I still think it's appalling that CNA's are not considered "nurses."
without a license may hold himself or herself out as a licensed
practical nurse or licensed attendant, use the title or letters
"trained practical nurse" or "t.p.n.", "licensed practical nurse"
or "l.p.n.", "licensed attendant" or "l.a.", "trained attendant"
or "t.a.", or otherwise seek to indicate that he or she is a licensed
practical nurse or licensed attendant. no licensed practical nurse
or licensed attendant may use the title, or otherwise seek to act as
a registered, licensed, graduate or professional nurse.
my interpretation of these sub-sections, and i'm not a lawyer but i have stayed at a holiday inn express, is that the "anything else" clause afforded to registered nurses allows an rn to call himself a "nurse." furthermore, since licensed practical nurses are not afforded such a clause, are told which titles they may use, and are specifically prohibited from representing themselves as "registered, licensed, graduate or professional nurse," lpns may not refer to themselves as "nurses" in the state of wisconsin.
i found in very interesting to note that "no license is required for practical nursing." a license is necessary only to refer to yourself as a "licensed practical nurse." how backwards is that? if the ltc facilities around here ever figured that out, they'd really be able to cut costs!
"why should an lpn be allowed to refer to himself as a "nurse"?
it has alot to do with the title...licensed vocational nurse...
Specializes in jack of all trades, master of none.
Originally Posted by lizz
This is yet another reason why I will be quitting my job as a CNA ... this is typical of the disrespect CNA's have to endure day after day. You care for and interact with the patient more than anybody else yet, you're not even considered a "nurse."
The hospital/facility assigns you too many patients where it's impossible give adequate care. Nevertheless, you run yourself ragged trying to satisfy the patients, the families, the RNs, the doctors, etc. ... all for a measily wage.
All day long you are up to your elbows in diarrhea, urine, vomit, blood .... all of the nasty things that nobody else wants to deal with ...
Yet, at the end of the day, you're rewarded with complaints that you didn't work hard enough and people who constantly remind you that you deserve no respect because you're not a real "nurse."
In my home state of California 80 percent of CNA's quit within the first few weeks on the job. Well ... I certainly understand why and I'll be joining them.
I am in nursing school and will be an RN one day. But I will never forget the abuse and disrespect I have experienced as a CNA. I find these kinds of attitudes toward CNA's appalling. "
Lizz, you're not a nurse, yet. You have to finish NURSING school, take your boards, pass, & apply for licensure. That's when you get to be called a nurse.
I don't know where you work, but you are sadly, sadly mistaken if you think nurses don't also spend days up to their elbows in diarrhea, urine, vomit, & blood. Those things just don't magically disappear once you become a nurse.
"The fact that CNA's aren't officially considered nurses ... even though they perform the duties upon which the profession of nursing was originally founded ... IS a sign of disrepect. It's just another example of how CNA's are dumped on every day."
That argument is just WEAK.
Times have changed. Laws continue to change. Nursing today is not the same as it was 100 yrs ago, or even 20 years ago. How many times do we all get to hear the stories about the way nursing used to be?? No gloves, no personal protective equipment. Just b/c that's how it was when nursing started, doesn't mean we should continue practices that may be detrimental to the health of another pt or ourselves.
I would love to hear what you have to say after you become a licensed nurse, work for a few years, & are running non-stop throughout your shift, chasing doctors to get orders for a critical pt, answering phone calls from concerned family members (yes, we still have to deal with families, too), giving meds, assessing patients, changing dressings, patient teaching, & documenting all of the above, in addition to being up to your elbows in diarrhea, blood, urine, & vomit while the CNA that is assigned to assist in caring for your pts is enjoying his/her lunch break & you haven't even had the opportunity to empty your bladder once during your shift. All this, plus the responsibility of your action, or inaction.
It seems to me that you might be better suited for a career outside of healthcare. You obviously don't seem happy dealing with patients & if you think it will be easier as a nurse, you are living in dreamland.
without a license may hold himself or herself out as a licensed
practical nurse or licensed attendant, use the title or letters
"trained practical nurse" or "t.p.n.", "licensed practical nurse"
or "l.p.n.", "licensed attendant" or "l.a.", "trained attendant"
or "t.a.", or otherwise seek to indicate that he or she is a licensed
practical nurse or licensed attendant. no licensed practical nurse
or licensed attendant may use the title, or otherwise seek to act as
a registered, licensed, graduate or professional nurse.
my interpretation of these sub-sections, and i'm not a lawyer but i have stayed at a holiday inn express, is that the "anything else" clause afforded to registered nurses allows an rn to call himself a "nurse." furthermore, since licensed practical nurses are not afforded such a clause, are told which titles they may use, and are specifically prohibited from representing themselves as "registered, licensed, graduate or professional nurse," lpns may not refer to themselves as "nurses" in the state of wisconsin.
i found in very interesting to note that "no license is required for practical nursing." a license is necessary only to refer to yourself as a "licensed practical nurse." how backwards is that? if the ltc facilities around here ever figured that out, they'd really be able to cut costs!
i'm not a lawyer and i've never stayed at a holiday inn express.
"no license is required for practical nursing" these types of wording/phrasing is why the duties of cnas vary depending on the state and facility they work in. it leaves huge holes open for all kinds of interpretation, because the term "practical nursing" is not clearly defined. it's wording/phrasing like this that also causing misinterpretation by the general public, cnas, lpns, rns, nursing students, hospital administrators, polititicans, etc. actually hospital administrators take advantage of this lack of clarity. ltc facilities have cut costs by taking advantage of these types of wordings/phrasings
"but no person without a license may hold himself or herself out as a licensed practical nurse or licensed attendant, use the title or letters...." this means that even if you are practicing the "practical" aspects of nursing, unless you have met the educational requirements and passed a state licensing exam to qualify as a licensed practical nurse, you cannot use those titles or letters.
the "anything else" clause you have also misinterpreted. it is not what allows rns to call themselves nurses.
"no person may practice or attempt to practice professional nursing, nor use the title, letters, or anything else to indicate that he or she is a registered or professional nurse unless he or she is licensed under this section." what this means is that unless you are licensed to practice professional nursing you cannot represent yourself as an lpn or rn or anything else that implies you are a professional nurse. it also means that an lpn cannot represent themselves as an rn. it also means that lpns and rns can represent themselves as professional nurses, because that is what they are. a professional nurse has formal education (diploma, adn, bsn, msn) that is recognized by their state bon and have to meet licensing requirements(nclex and maintainence requirements ie ceus to maintain their license).
"no person not so licensed may use in connection with his or nursing employment or vocation any title or anything else to indicate that he or she is a trained, certified or graduate nurse." that means that on a job resume, you cannot represent yourself as a "nurse" if you do not hold a license as an lpn or rn. that means as an employee you also cannot represent yourself as a nurse to others. this also means that an lvn cannot represent themselves as an rn on a resume or in the workplace. cnas, mas, techs or what ever title one has that is not lpn or rn cannot represent themselves as professional nurses, it is misrepresentation if they do.
thanks for your post tyler. the state statutes you provided are excellent examples of why there is a lot of confusion regarding the title nurse. i also want to make clear that there is no intended flaming nor anger/outrage towards you in my post. if legal statutes were more specific and better worded there would be significantly less error in interpretation and less loop holes to be taken advantage of at the expense of patient care.
I also want to make clear that there is no intended flaming nor anger/outrage towards you in my post.
No flame interpreted, i just thought it was an interesting topic so i checked the statutes (quite frankly, i didn't think there would be any mention of titles and their uses). txspadequeen921 may have been more "flamey" :)
so, just to clarify, by the letter of the law (in wisconsin) you DO believe that LPNs could legally use the term and title of "nurse?"
to be honest, i don't think i've ever hesitated to use the term "nurse" with LPNs...I was just playing devil's advocate in my first post and it turned out an interesting point considering the wording of the statutes. at the LTC facility where I work, LPNs provide 99% of the residents' daily nursing needs (and do it quite well) and easily justify the title of "nurse" (btw, i'm a lowly CNA and still only in nursing school...i'm not a nurse...yet)
I apologize if this is a stupid question, but I really just had to ask
Can a CNA be considered a nurse?
I mean, I have always been led to believe that CNA stood for certified nursing assistant. An assistant to a nurse and not a nurse.
The reason why I ask is because I've ran into quite a few people that say they are nurses, then when I try to go into it more (seeing as I have interest in the nursing field), they say they are CNA's.
But then when I was in the brief period of LVN school and was talking to a CNA, she had no clue about some of the things LVN's did much less RN's.
:stone
A CNA is NOT a nurse and should not be considered as one.
So along the same vein then would you also consider a Physician's assistant a physician?
A Physician's Assistant is NOT a physician. It is a Master's level profession that is a dead end (in that a PA can go no farther or have much autonomy).
As I previously mentioned, I am in nursing school and will become an RN. Besides working as a CNA I also work as a student extern on the RN side. So I have a pretty good sense of what RN's deal with everyday.
But, I still think it's appalling that CNA's are not considered "nurses."
I think you willl find things a bit better whe you adjust your attitude a bit. let's hear what you have to say AFTER you hve a license and have worked for a while.
Any of us who were aids before becoming nurses know how hard aides work. There is no doubt about that. However, they hold no responsibility or accountability as we RN's do. When you have unlicensed personnel working under YOUR nursing license, I think you'll see thngs a bit more clearly.
I totally hear what you are saying with the rest of the post, but I just wanted to point out how I found this sentence amusing.
The RNs at my hospital have told me that I am a nurse, but I'm not sure, as I don't hold a licence, only a certification.
I think there needs to be a specific, universal definition for exactly what a nurse is.
Addendum: Whenever I identify myself, I ALWAYS call myself a nursing ASSISTANT, never a nurse.
Sadly, if the RN's at your hospital have told you you are a nurse, then they are very mistaken and are also risking their licenses as well (depending on what they ask you to do).
txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN
4,373 Posts
Nobody is trying to disrespect you. CNA's have a valuable place in health care .... However, just because you care for somebody does not make you a nurse.