Just had a couple of dillies yesterday, and wondered if any of y'all run into this where you are.
1) LOL is on the table, having a heart cath. The doc tells her that we have to send her to a different hospital for further intervention, based on the results. The LOL tells the doc to print out pictures of the problem areas, go and show them to her husband, and he will decide whether or not she needs to go.
2) We call a lady to schedule an appointment after an abnormal test, and to advise her that she will likely need a cath (that was the purpose of the visit, to allow us to explain why). The first question out of her was "Well, how abnormal was it? I have plans tomorrow, and I am getting my preop done, I can't come. I really don't see why we have to jump right to another test just because one was a little funny."
"Ma'am, this test was abnormal to the point that we are pretty sure that you need a cath. We can tell that something's not right, but we can not be sure how not right it is untile we take a look at your arteries."
"Well, what is the doc's name? OK, I'll discuss this with my husband and let you know if I'll be there."
#1 did get transferred, and #2 did show up, but GOOD LORD!
Yes, I will discuss things with my DH, if it can wait to be discussed. But in the above instance, especially number one, my only comment to my hubby would be "Get my things, please, and meet us there. I love you."
Ok.. Egged on just enough to finish what Ron White said. "you can't fix stupid...there is not a pill you can take, not a class you can go to...stupid is forever". Beyond that, I don't believe I have seen one post where someone actually told a patient they were stupid. I just see nurses talking to each other and venting about frustrating experiences with patients. Shocking how some are so non-judgemental.
I totally agree ! Some of these posts are very harsh and I can't believe these are nurses posting them.
It may seem harsh... And it is... But like was posted earlier, you can't fix stupid:eek:! As for the more elderly in our society, I can see the LOL asking her husband of 40-50+ years about going for further tx because as was said earlier, these folks have different standards than us younger. I can remember my Grandmother used to tell my Grandfather where she was going ANY time she left his sight(even the bathroom):redpinkhe. The younger generations... Well... Again, ya can't fix stupid:eek:. So, if you think we are being harsh, remember, this forum is a place for we as Nurses to VENT!!!! so we don't say this to the patients. Let the flames begin, I guess...
First of all, glad to see the common sense responses on this thread. Those with judgmental, negative attitudes -- you don't think patients can read you? You think you're such good actresses and actors that your inner, perhaps real feelings just go over patient heads? I'd suggest to you that these "stupid" patients know more than you think. Just because you don't say they're "stupid" -- many of them read your attitude. You really believe you're in such complete control of your facial expressions, eye blinks, ticks, body stances and movements? Kid yourself if it makes you feel better. Make believe that there's a firm, soild line between your venting here and what comes through to your patients. Then, if you so desire, read the research about the subtle signals we send each other, unconscious non verbal signals that are actually much more important and revealing than the words we say. This isn't to say people don't make bad decisions every day. They do, and will continue to. But try to look behind the action, behind the bad decision to see what's really motivating the person. It's like stupid questions. Even if it sounds stupid, people are asking something. What is it? Sometimes people have such a small knowledge base in a certain discipline that they can't even properly articulate a question. They don't have the vocabulary. And consider this -- sometimes a patients "stupid" decision may be based upon poor communication upon the part of the caregiver.
"I'm busy tomorrow, are you sure this is so urgent?"
"I'll ask my husband...."
Bless their hearts, after the word 'cath, "mass"' or 'cancer' they need time to absorb, time to process ........
90% of what's said after that shock goes right through one ear & out the other.
My husband is a PA in a busy rural ER. He sees patients after accidents, does a CT & finds cancer in asymptomatic patients frequently. Many times it's the accident that saved their life.....literally.
They're not stupid, they're in shock, 'can't be..."not me"
We had a bit of a shock in January.
My daughter is dating a man who just passed his 18th month 'cancer free' he was diagnosed with a stage 4 non Hodgkins lymphoma. With all the chemo, we were concerned that, should they wed....no grandbabies.
Well, he beat ALL the odds. Wasn't supposed to live, sure wasn't supposed to have swimmers.
My daughter delivered a 10 pound 8 oz, 22 inch boy just over a week ago. He looks just like his daddy.
Daddy's parents are over the moon, he's an only child, they thought he was lost, but God granted them more time with him. They never expected a grandchild.....not in a million years.
Needless to say, these people think my daughter hung the moon.
Just had a couple of dillies yesterday, and wondered if any of y'all run into this where you are.
1) LOL is on the table, having a heart cath. The doc tells her that we have to send her to a different hospital for further intervention, based on the results. The LOL tells the doc to print out pictures of the problem areas, go and show them to her husband, and he will decide whether or not she needs to go.
2) We call a lady to schedule an appointment after an abnormal test, and to advise her that she will likely need a cath (that was the purpose of the visit, to allow us to explain why). The first question out of her was "Well, how abnormal was it? I have plans tomorrow, and I am getting my preop done, I can't come. I really don't see why we have to jump right to another test just because one was a little funny."
"Ma'am, this test was abnormal to the point that we are pretty sure that you need a cath. We can tell that something's not right, but we can not be sure how not right it is untile we take a look at your arteries."
"Well, what is the doc's name? OK, I'll discuss this with my husband and let you know if I'll be there."
#1 did get transferred, and #2 did show up, but GOOD LORD!
Yes, I will discuss things with my DH, if it can wait to be discussed. But in the above instance, especially number one, my only comment to my hubby would be "Get my things, please, and meet us there. I love you."
This just blew my mind.
Any of you seeing anything similar?
I am not sure of your age. I have been in nursing many years. I have seen it all and I have had very difficult pts. There may be some igonorance here but I think you have to realize that many things we see involve a person's acceptance of what can be a very dangerous disease process. There is much denial involved when it comes to a person facing possible heart procedures and surgery. You don't know how they may have lost a close relative, or how much they know about the procedures. Many times people are envisioning having their chest cracked for heart surgery, etc. It is a way different thing to be on that table vs. you as the nurse. Remember to be empathetic and we don't know from what perspective they are coming from. sorry if I seem a little testy. I don't mean to be awful.
My gran (though she's just old and probably a bit demented). She's just come back to the ward after three days in ICU and the head professor of respiratory med is telling her that she'll probably need the NIV and O2 at home/forever:
1. "Oh no, I don't need that. There's nothing wrong with me."
2. "There's nothing wrong with me except that I'm a lazy old lady!"
In ICU, on BiPAP, trying to take the mask off. "Grandma, you need this mask to help you breathe." "RUBBISH!"
Specializes in psychiatric nursing, med/surg adult care.
An intubated 50 year-old man, on weaning day 2, pulled off the electrical cord of his mechanical vent from the socket! When I rushed in to check on him, he has this ready explanation written on his white board "get rid of this metal! can't sleep with its sound."
Specializes in med-surg, psych, ER, school nurse-CRNP.
To answer, I'm 29. And to answer a further previous post, yes, I am a pretty darn good actress. Drama club in school. You have got to be something of an actress in this field to not show when something gets to you, to not actively puke your guts up in front of the patients (although I'm guilty of that), and to not let them know you're ready to pummell the living daylights out of them because they are such a pill.
It also requires the patience of Job to NOT jack-slap the select few that truly probably could use it. As many "awful patient" threads as are on here, I KNOW people can identify with that.
So, no, neither lady knew just exactly how I felt, I just put my professional face on, did what I needed to do, and commiserated with my boss later. He was of the same opinion.
My father isn't stupid, or demented, but has been treated that way by nurses who probably think they are very good nurses. Dad can be stubborn, and is a bit prone to wishful thinking regarding healthcare. He also tends to lean on me a lot when he is in the hospital. He seems to think I have a better idea what's going on. He also tends to get a little overwhelmed by bad news or even lots of not-so-bad news at once, and our perception of what's bad news is a bit different.
I agree that nurses need to be able to vent, from time to time. But we also need to be able to listen. "Stupid" was not the term that came to my mind when I read the OP. I would suggest that since you aren't likely to have a lot of time to get to know a patient in a cath lab, it's probably all the more important to try to refrain from judgements and find as much empathy as you can.
Not long ago, I had a stretch where every night I worked, I had a patient who had been labeled a drug-seeker. Not the same patient every time. It drove me nuts, but after thinking it through, I realized that part of the reason it drove me nuts was that in most instances I really believe the patient was in pain, and I couldn't do much about it. So, instead of getting angry at the patient, I needed to look at other solutions. (I wish I could report I found some.)
It's worth asking ourselves: are most patients stupid? If so, nursing--or at least some particular area of nursing--may not be the best career choice. Is it only a few? What, if anything, do they have in common? How can I communicate more effectively?
Describing the OPs remarks as judgemental is not in itself judgemental. Concluding that the OP was burned out, or lacking in empathy, or stupid, based on a couple of judgemental remarks would be judgemental. Frustrated? Maybe, but frustration is probably one of the five stages of working out a problem. Um, probably more than five stages, though.
Gee, AngelfireRN, drama club in school? Well, I guess there's nothing you need to learn about acting or commication. You "think" your patients can't read you. That's your perception. Sometimes the "way" you show something doesn't get to you, works for you -- but it's also quite recognizable to those around you as merely a strategy. Communication is a complex subject, and non verbal communication is even more complex. You seem pretty confident. Your strategies seem designed to make you feel good and keep you going. That's valid. But that has nothing to do with how your patients may perceive you.
Specializes in M/S, MICU, CVICU, SICU, ER, Trauma, NICU.
Well, is it stupidity, or is it a cultural difference (husband makes decisions for the family)? Is it stupidity, or the normal grief reaction of denial to a frightening diagnosis? I understand it can be frustrating for us as nurses, but we have to try and look past our own assumptions and meet the client where he/she is.
This is the right thing to do so you don't get annoyed.
But, let's face it, there are still stupid people out there.
leslie :-D
11,191 Posts
yes.
and how about knowledge deficit versus "stupid"?
leslie