Just had a couple of dillies yesterday, and wondered if any of y'all run into this where you are.
1) LOL is on the table, having a heart cath. The doc tells her that we have to send her to a different hospital for further intervention, based on the results. The LOL tells the doc to print out pictures of the problem areas, go and show them to her husband, and he will decide whether or not she needs to go.
2) We call a lady to schedule an appointment after an abnormal test, and to advise her that she will likely need a cath (that was the purpose of the visit, to allow us to explain why). The first question out of her was "Well, how abnormal was it? I have plans tomorrow, and I am getting my preop done, I can't come. I really don't see why we have to jump right to another test just because one was a little funny."
"Ma'am, this test was abnormal to the point that we are pretty sure that you need a cath. We can tell that something's not right, but we can not be sure how not right it is untile we take a look at your arteries."
"Well, what is the doc's name? OK, I'll discuss this with my husband and let you know if I'll be there."
#1 did get transferred, and #2 did show up, but GOOD LORD!
Yes, I will discuss things with my DH, if it can wait to be discussed. But in the above instance, especially number one, my only comment to my hubby would be "Get my things, please, and meet us there. I love you."
that's a strawman's response about "dumb people deserving respect."
there is no issue with people being dumb and not deserving respect. all people deserve respect.
my understanding of the op's original thought is that she is expressing her frustrations. that's it. but there is always one person on this forum who is quick to deny an op that--and that happens to be you.
the issue here is denying that dumb people exist. they are all out there and nurses here are venting about them.
what is at issue here is that this forum is the place to vent...let it all hang out about nurses and their stupid patients.
just because you feel that the op is judging, doesn't dismiss her own personal feelings. she has a right to them--and if she feels that she doesn't "get" the dumb people (yet)..so be it.
that's her personal experience.
all i'm adding to the equation is that dumb people do exist and that has been scientifically proven. whether you feel that they are less dumb because of your approach, well...have at it....
i am just being my pragmatic, and very logical..me.
i am sorry if it seemed i was dismissive of the ops feelings. i've felt them, myself, from time to time. but i do feel the ops remarks were judgemental, and would have been no matter who was making them. looking back over the discussion, i'm concerned that my remarks about some nurses who think they are good nurses might have seemed directed at some poster in this thread, and that was not my intention--i was venting a little, there, myself, about some of the care my dad received (and just to clarify, there were several of his nurses who made me feel proud to be a nurse, and most were at least pretty good). but i'll stand by the idea that looking down on one's patients is not a very productive approach to nursing. and yes, i do think the op was guilty of that, in this isolated instance. as any of us can be, from time to time.
as far as the purpose of this forum being a place to vent, i disagree. i see it as a place to discuss. i don't feel the poster should be attacked for expressing her feelings, but neither should she expect everyone to agree. it would be a pretty boring discussion: my patients are dumb. yeah, my patients are dumb, too. well, my patients are dumb and rude...
and yes, finally, i do find that when i listen to my patients, they very often are not as dumb as they might initially appear. that might not be pragmatic or logical, but it works.
Specializes in med-surg, psych, ER, school nurse-CRNP.
Well, nursemike, in this case, you may run into some opposition. Yes, this is a discussion forum, but this thread, we're venting. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. But it fries me to be called judgemental by people who are judging me.
Yep, I guess it does look like I look down on some patients. Maybe I do. I have never suffered fools easily, and some of these people would frustrate a saint.
That being said, I completely understand how my approach may not be widely accepted, and that's OK. It takes all kinds.
On that note, I'm for bed. I'm whipped. 'Night, all.
"I'm busy tomorrow, are you sure this is so urgent?"
"I'll ask my husband...."
Bless their hearts, after the word 'cath, "mass"' or 'cancer' they need time to absorb, time to process ........
90% of what's said after that shock goes right through one ear & out the other.
My husband is a PA in a busy rural ER. He sees patients after accidents, does a CT & finds cancer in asymptomatic patients frequently. Many times it's the accident that saved their life.....literally.
They're not stupid, they're in shock, 'can't be..."not me"
I agree. And as other posters have pointed out, there may be generational or cultural differences that make it difficult for someone to make a health-related decision.
My father is a very intelligent man but I am sure any nurse or physician who deals with him probably thinks he is "stupid". My dad will not tell the provider what his problems are and he expects the provider to somehow magically know what's wrong. I tell him he can't do that and has to talk to his doctor but he continues with his non-communication. Drives me crazy! Again, my father is not stupid but in such instances, his behavior is, well, stupid.
We had a bit of a shock in January.
My daughter is dating a man who just passed his 18th month 'cancer free' he was diagnosed with a stage 4 non Hodgkins lymphoma. With all the chemo, we were concerned that, should they wed....no grandbabies.
Well, he beat ALL the odds. Wasn't supposed to live, sure wasn't supposed to have swimmers.
My daughter delivered a 10 pound 8 oz, 22 inch boy just over a week ago. He looks just like his daddy.
Daddy's parents are over the moon, he's an only child, they thought he was lost, but God granted them more time with him. They never expected a grandchild.....not in a million years.
Needless to say, these people think my daughter hung the moon.
What about the patient who comes in for chest pain even though the patient admits to snorting alot of cocaine. Wonder why you have chest pain now? The patients I honestly can't stand and do think are stupid are the frequent fliers who are always so sick but they can drive themselves to the hospital and ask for all the pain meds they want.
Well, nursemike, in this case, you may run into some opposition. Yes, this is a discussion forum, but this thread, we're venting. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. But it fries me to be called judgemental by people who are judging me.
Yep, I guess it does look like I look down on some patients. Maybe I do. I have never suffered fools easily, and some of these people would frustrate a saint.
That being said, I completely understand how my approach may not be widely accepted, and that's OK. It takes all kinds.
On that note, I'm for bed. I'm whipped. 'Night, all.
Ignorance is remedied with explanations and experience. Stupidity is stubborn and extends beyond basic denial. Even lab gerbils will learn to NOT try to eat an electrified food pellet because they learn that it will yield consequences.
I once had a lady come in for a cardiac cath. She felt a bit dizzy after getting up after her lying down time, so her genius daughter gave her sublingual nitroglycerin. We heard the daughter screaming and found the patient passed out in the chair, white as a sheet, manual SBP about 90. The daughter was pretty clueless about the drug, even mistakenly calling it bilingual nitroglycerin. She told me that we were giving her drugs that could kill her mother, and that she wanted us to discontinue it. Uh, no. Stop trying to blame us. This drug won't kill people, irresponsible use of it will, especially when you take blind actions like that (Oh, what will this medicine/button do?). She stubbornly insisted that SL nitro was dangerous despite our explanations. I learned pretty quickly that the daughter's mind was completely black and white with no hue, value, or chroma, and was going to stay that way despite any kind of rational explanation.
Seems to me that these 2 women were doing something that is really quite "normal"... and that is simply "buying time".
When presented with a new or frightening dx., or a new/additional/unplanned/unexpected procedure.. they needed a bit of time to absorb and digest the new information. I'm sure there was a feeling of uncomfortable urgency, and the initial reaction was "wait a minute!!!" Or "hold everything.. give me a minute here!"
Many women, even men, might use their spouses as their "excuse" in situations like these. "let me discuss this with my husband/wife first".... when in reality they are simply trying to buy time to absorb the new information given them and not feel PRESSURED into a sudden change of plans.
I know that I would want a "time out" in a similar situation. Perhaps what is needed here is understanding that some ppl
1. need time (even if a few minutes, 1/2 hour, or hour...) to allow things to sink in
2. need NOT to feel "pressured" in any way so that the new information can be processed calmly and rationally
3. an atmosphere of calmness, understanding, and SUPPORT of their current need for a "time out", regardless of how urgent things may appear to US at the moment... to enable them to make an important and informed decision.
And fourthly.. we might need a second set of eyes for such circumstances...what appears to us too often as "stupid" may be in reality no more than a frightened or uncertain person's first reaction to a situation of which they ALREADY feel they have little knowledge, much less control... and thus the internal battle begins...
"how to I protect myself from looking "stupid/uninformed/frightened" and "how do I tell them I just need some time to absorb and process yet ANOTHER unwelcomed, unexpected bit of information" ?
For what it's worth, this is how it appears to me. No more and no less.
Seems to me that these 2 women were doing something that is really quite "normal"... and that is simply "buying time".
When presented with a new or frightening dx., or a new/additional/unplanned/unexpected procedure.. they needed a bit of time to absorb and digest the new information. I'm sure there was a feeling of uncomfortable urgency, and the initial reaction was "wait a minute!!!" Or "hold everything.. give me a minute here!"
Many women, even men, might use their spouses as their "excuse" in situations like these. "let me discuss this with my husband/wife first".... when in reality they are simply trying to buy time to absorb the new information given them and not feel PRESSURED into a sudden change of plans.
I know that I would want a "time out" in a similar situation. Perhaps what is needed here is understanding that some ppl
1. need time (even if a few minutes, 1/2 hour, or hour...) to allow things to sink in
2. need NOT to feel "pressured" in any way so that the new information can be processed calmly and rationally
3. an atmosphere of calmness, understanding, and SUPPORT of their current need for a "time out", regardless of how urgent things may appear to US at the moment... to enable them to make an important and informed decision.
And fourthly.. we might need a second set of eyes for such circumstances...what appears to us too often as "stupid" may be in reality no more than a frightened or uncertain person's first reaction to a situation of which they ALREADY feel they have little knowledge, much less control... and thus the internal battle begins...
"how to I protect myself from looking "stupid/uninformed/frightened" and "how do I tell them I just need some time to absorb and process yet ANOTHER unwelcomed, unexpected bit of information" ?
For what it's worth, this is how it appears to me. No more and no less.
Thank you for putting this so well. The only point I might differ with you on is "even men." I'd be tempted to say "especially men." But I suppose a lot of women can be just as reluctant to surrender control to another. And I don't know that they should have to. Patients with the capacity to make their own decisions should have the opportunity to do so, even when the appropriate course seems obvious to us.
nursemike, ASN, RN
1 Article; 2,362 Posts
i am sorry if it seemed i was dismissive of the ops feelings. i've felt them, myself, from time to time. but i do feel the ops remarks were judgemental, and would have been no matter who was making them. looking back over the discussion, i'm concerned that my remarks about some nurses who think they are good nurses might have seemed directed at some poster in this thread, and that was not my intention--i was venting a little, there, myself, about some of the care my dad received (and just to clarify, there were several of his nurses who made me feel proud to be a nurse, and most were at least pretty good). but i'll stand by the idea that looking down on one's patients is not a very productive approach to nursing. and yes, i do think the op was guilty of that, in this isolated instance. as any of us can be, from time to time.
as far as the purpose of this forum being a place to vent, i disagree. i see it as a place to discuss. i don't feel the poster should be attacked for expressing her feelings, but neither should she expect everyone to agree. it would be a pretty boring discussion: my patients are dumb. yeah, my patients are dumb, too. well, my patients are dumb and rude...
and yes, finally, i do find that when i listen to my patients, they very often are not as dumb as they might initially appear. that might not be pragmatic or logical, but it works.