CDC states only 10,000 patients died DIRECTLY from Covid

londonflo · Sep 2, 2020

11 minutes ago, FNP2B1 said:

I'm using the source you listed from JAMA to reach my conclusion.

Conclusions and Relevance as stated in the article: Excess deaths provide an estimate of the full COVID-19 burden and indicate that official tallies likely undercount deaths due to the virus. The mortality burden and the completeness of the tallies vary markedly between states.

Yes, it will be interesting to see what the long term studies conclude. However, when something new is added to an environmental system and there are subsequent changes to that system, a common sense conclusion is that the 2 things are related until proven otherwise. What other conclusions could there be? Many elderly people decided to develop heart failure, loneliness, anxiety and depression, respiratory failure and die during the months March to May?

guest416560 · Sep 2, 2020

Many elderly people decided not to visit their physicians or NPs/PAs during Covid. They didn't die directly from the virus. The virus didn't kill them. I'm sure fear of catching the virus contributed to their demise.

The point Trump was making and the data supports it is that when you look at deaths DIRECTLY related to only COVID19 less than 10,000 Americans have died from it. The rest of the COVID associated deaths had underlying medical conditions. The CDC data supports this.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Sep 2, 2020

Clarification from CDC Data:

1. CDC Reported deaths is from preliminary provisional data. Data collection is ongoing until finalized December2021 for deaths occurring in 2020.

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Provisional data are incomplete, and the level of completeness varies by jurisdiction, week, decedent’s age, and cause of death. Until data for a calendar year are finalized, typically in December of the following year, completeness of provisional data cannot be determined

https://www.CDC.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/tech_notes.htm

2. 94 % Covid deaths reported to date had an underlying illness that was exacerbated by Covid illness and caused death.

6% of deaths due to covid had no prior underlying illness.

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Coronavirus disease deaths are identified using the ICD–10 code U07.1. Deaths are coded to U07.1 when coronavirus disease 2019 or COVID-19 are reported as a cause that contributed to death on the death certificate. These can include laboratory confirmed cases, as well as cases without laboratory confirmation. If the certifier suspects COVID-19 or determines it was likely (e.g., the circumstances were compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), they can report COVID-19 as “probable” or “presumed” on the death certificate (5, 6).

COVID-19 is listed as the underlying cause on the death certificate in 94% of deaths (see Table 1).

https://www.CDC.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

guest416560 · Sep 2, 2020

4 minutes ago, NRSKarenRN said:

6 % of deaths due to covid had no prior underlying illness

That extrapolates to around 10,000 lives.

allnurses Guide · Sep 2, 2020

2 hours ago, FNP2B1 said:

My interpretation based on the published studies is that increase in mortality can be linked to patients postponing essential medical care which lead to their deaths. The virus didn't DIRECTLY cause the increase in overall deaths as supported by CDC data.

CDC is not known to be political. You can interpret differently if you choose

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Fact check: CDC's data on COVID-19 deaths used incorrectly in misleading claims

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/01/fact-check-cdcs-data-covid-19-deaths-used-misleading-claims/5681686002/

CDC Did Not ‘Admit Only 6%’ of Recorded Deaths from COVID-19

... The underlying cause of death is the condition that started the chain of events that led to a person’s death. In 92% of all deaths that mention COVID-19, that disease is listed as the underlying cause of death, Jeff Lancashire, spokesman for the CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics, told FactCheck.org in an email...

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/CDC-did-not-admit-only-6-of-recorded-deaths-from-covid-19/

MunoRN, RN · Sep 2, 2020

3 hours ago, FNP2B1 said:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200701125506.htm

I'm not trained to be an epidemiologist and I'm assuming you are not either. This article provides an explanation. Wish I had more time to debate but had to fire a provider this morning and will have to attend to her patient case load. Enjoy the debate.

A basic understanding of how viral infections lead to death isn't limited to epidemiologists, it's part of the expected foundational knowledge of any RN, and certainly should be expected of an NP.

Viruses, like many other conditions, illnesses, injuries, etc that lead to death don't "directly" cause death, it's the sequalae that ultimately results in death, but that doesn't mean the virus didn't trigger or exacerbate the sequalae, when those conditions or disfunctions already exist to some degree then then that gives the virus a head start, but it certainly doesn't mean the virus wasn't was what caused their death.

3 hours ago, FNP2B1 said:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200701125506.htm

That article points out that the actual death toll from COVID-19 is likely higher, not lower, that the CDC's reported numbers. Per your article, there were 56,000 deaths attributed to COVID in March and April, but there were 87,000 "excess deaths". Your article points out that at least some portion of those were likely COVID deaths, and some portion was due to "indirect mortality", such as overburdened hospitals. There is nothing in the article that supports your claim that the actual number of COVID deaths is less than the CDC's reported data, it clearly says the opposite is more likely.

guest416560 · Sep 2, 2020

So how many died solely due to COVID-19? I calculate 10,000 who had zero underlying conditions.l.

MunoRN, RN · Sep 3, 2020

10 minutes ago, FNP2B1 said:

So how many died solely due to COVID-19? I calculate 10,000 who had zero underlying conditions.l.

Your logic doesn't follow. Diabetes increase the risk of both having a STEMI and the likelihood of dying from a STEMI, does that mean if someone dies of a STEMI but they had diabetes that they didn't actually die from cardiac arrest caused by an acute MI? If someone with mild thrombocytopenia gets hit by a car and dies from traumatic bleeding, did they not die because they were hit by a car?

Depending on what threshold we use for defining 'increased risk of severe illness', the % of the population that are at higher risk ranges from about a quarter to about three-quarters of the population, which is what makes the fact that 10,000 people died despite having no underlying conditions more concerning than comforting.

londonflo · Sep 3, 2020

Some time ago, someone posted the following diagram which I copied but did not note who was the author. My apologies and please let me know who you are so that I can give credit. I think this diagram sums up this thread.

loop.png.c0efb35dcc67f3b3aa07c81dc73706fb.png

guest416560 · Sep 3, 2020

Lets make this simple.

10,000 people died who according to the data provided did not have any other underlying health condition attributed to their deaths beyond contracting Covid 19. These were healthy people according to what we know. What logic do you not follow?

Actinic keratoses contributes to the formation of squamous cell carcinomas which metastasize in the lungs or liver. That is nice information to spew but has absolutely nothing to do with Covid 19.

If someone dies from a traumatic car crash where their brains are splattered all over the place but when tests were done it was determined they had Covid so they are counted as a Covid death and not a MVA?

My simple point is 10,000 otherwise healthy people with no known underlying health conditions died directly from Covid 19. This is what the CDC data states.

I can't make it any more simpler to explain than this.

allnurses Guide · Sep 3, 2020

Kent County Health Department addresses latest CDC COVID-19 update

The Kent County Health Department is explaining what an update on COVID-19 from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention means after misinformation on social media incorrectly claimed the agency had admitted only six percent of the country’s coronavirus deaths actually died from the virus.

“This adds to our concerns over the fact that there’s a certain population of the people who think that COVID is not going to impact them greatly,” said Brian Hartl, Kent County Health Department epidemiologist. “Understand, we still need to do our social distancing, wear our masks, and, really, if it’s not to protect yourself, it’s to protect those around you....

... “When you look at it in the number, 10,000 people with no underlying conditions -- healthy people who became infected and died -- I think that’s enough to raise awareness that this is an infection that’s dangerous to people who have underlying conditions but can also cause death and severe complications in people who are totally healthy,” said Hartl.

If the misinformation is misused, Hartl says, it could lead to additional cases among 18 to 29-year-olds. He says the number of cases among that age group has been the highest among all age groups in Kent County for at least the last month...

https://www.fox17online.com/news/local-news/kent/kent-county-health-department-addresses-latest-CDC-covid-19-update

toomuchbaloney · Sep 3, 2020

3 minutes ago, FNP2B1 said:

Lets make this simple.

10,000 people died who according to the data provided did not have any other underlying health condition attributed to their deaths beyond contracting Covid 19. These were healthy people according to what we know. What logic do you not follow?

Actinic keratoses contributes to the formation of squamous cell carcinomas which metastasize in the lungs or liver. That is nice information to spew but has absolutely nothing to do with Covid 19.

If someone dies from a traumatic car crash where their brains are splattered all over the place but when tests were done it was determined they had Covid so they are counted as a Covid death and not a MVA?

My simple point is 10,000 otherwise healthy people with no known underlying health conditions died directly from Covid 19. This is what the CDC data states.

I can't make it any more simpler to explain than this.

I am dumb founded that these are being offered as serious questions. Do you not know the answers? Why are you so confused about how cause of death is determined or reported?

Why do you think that you need to simplify something when you are the person commenting here with the many questions? Do you not understand the explanations that have been provided?