Calling EMS to pronounce

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So, last night, we had a resident that was DNR expire. We did all the things we know how to do, RN super pronounced, notify MD, notify family, notify DON, call police to do their thing. Anyways, when the police came, they wanted to know where EMS was and why we hadn't called them to pronounce. I say we've never had to call them to pronounce before, as the RN in the house always pronounces, and the house docs have filled out a form agreeing to sign the death cert. for anyone that dies in the facility.

That wasn't flying with these guys and we actually had to call the EMS to come pronounce. (family showed up while we were waiting for EMS to get there).

The policeman said new p&p dictate EMS must always be the one to pronounce per Medical Examiner.

Anyone hear about this or was this cop just being a PIA?

What do you guys do at your facility?

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

You'll have to check with the police department and what their policy is and I would also inquire as to whom is going to pay that bill......let your administrators know what they are saying.....it's going to end up a billing issue.

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Specializes in ICU, Telemetry.

New one on me. I could see it if there was some question as to whether the person was actually dead or not, but that's just strange to me. The county better be training up a lot more ambulance crews as the baby boomers get older...

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Specializes in ER.

As far as I know, in NY- EMS isn't qualified to pronounce.

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Specializes in PICU, NICU, L&D, Public Health, Hospice.

Not a problem in Michigan, nurses pronounce.

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Specializes in LTC, Psych, Hospice.

In most of the parishes (counties) in Louisiana a nurse (RN or LPN) can pronounce. We notify family, coronor, and funeral home. One parish has us call the PD (they just make a report) and in another parish EMS must be called and they run a strip and call the coronor.

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Ditto, on the NY thing. EMS are only allowed to withhold lifesaving measures in the presence of a DNR or obvious death (decapitation, dependent lividity and Rigor). We are in no circumstance eligible to pronounce. Even if EMS are, what a waste of money/time. Crazy!

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In my city the nursing homes don't usually call us for DNR's. If they are working the code or the pt's not a DNR then they call us unless it's an obvious death. We usually fill out a death report and give it to PD upon their arrival. Just makes their job a little easier since most of the patient information is on it. If EMS is called then PD is also dispatched in our city. The opposite is not true. For example, if we get called for a trauma (gun shot, suicide attempt, etc) and the pt has injuries incompatible with life then PD will clear us prior to us ever seeing the patient. That being said every city and county can have different rules. If your want a concrete answer then have a nursing supervisor call the PD department and ask what their policy is.

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Specializes in LTC, Hospice, Case Management.

We don't officially pronounce anything in my state. We just call MD with resident report (absence of vitals) and write an order that MD agrees to sign death certificate and OK to release body to funeral home of family choice.

I have never called for police or EMS involvement in the process. Wonder if this is a state to state thing?

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Specializes in Gerontology, Med surg, Home Health.

We don't call the police if someone dies. We call the doc, get an order to pronounce and then call the funeral home. No EMS no police.

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Interesting how different places have different rules.

We have to call PD for any DNR death (except hospice), and 911 for any unresponsive full code. They do the statement and call the medical examiner. The doctor is only called to inform them of the death. We (the nurses) call TOD and notify the persons of interest including funeral home. Up until last night, I had never been told that EMS needed to be called to pronounce.

I worked another state where we pronounced, did not call PD but called Medical examiner and got a case number, and permission to release to funeral home. I guess I really need to clarify this with the powers that be before it comes up again.

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We don't call the police if someone dies. We call the doc, get an order to pronounce and then call the funeral home. No EMS no police.

yeah, that. What are the police called for?

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