Bullying - What is it?

Nurses Relations

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A lot of threads discuss whether or not bullying is rampant. I want to give some examples of behaviors and I am interested in people to tell me which one(s) consist of bullying, rude behavior, or social abuse.

(1) A nurse grabbing a sheet from her orientee's hands, stating in a raised voice that "its too sloppy, give it to me" so that she can fold it herself over a patient.

(2) A nurse not letting her orientee go to lunch or cover their orientee's lunch because the orientee had to catch up on documentation, even though the nurse had taken lunch herself.

(3) A nurse loudly commanding their orientee in the nurses station to finish their documentation before doing anything else because they don't want to get out late.

(4) A nurse asking another nurse "why did you needlestick yourself?" after an accidental needlestick that requires the nurse to go to occ health.

(5) A nurse asking another nurse during ICU handoff why they didn't obtain an order to replete their patients potassium of 3.8.

These are real life situations that I have experienced or observed. In my opinion, the majority of them demonstrate the height of rudeness. The last one demonstrates someone suggesting that a nurse didn't follow their patient's labs to replete their normal potassium level to one that was more normal.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I don't see it that way. I see them as limited people who have never known anything else.

The fact that we have two self-indulgent people in this thread who (1) have a signature proclaiming that they are a "crusty old bat" and (2) another who proudly proclaims that they are a "fat, old nurse" speaks volumes about the role models these types might expect. It's just sad; there's nothing good about being crusty or fat (I don't care as much about old) and I wouldn't want any nurse with those traits being a polestar for our profession.. Do you see recruitment ads for any profession talking about awesome any of those traits are? Probably not.

I don't know that any of normal people aspire to be crusty or fat, but hey... what do I know. So what is expected by advertising that? Congratulations on being a fat, crusty gasbag? Nice.

A lot of the debate on this forum dwells on the the idea that nurses are supposed to be professionals, but act like or are treated more like vocational service laborers. I think that's sad. Professionals don't have to miss lunch. Vocational service laborers often do. Which do you want nursing to be, and which role do you want to defend? Being fat, crusty, and complacent, and a service laborer? Or being youthful, clean, and caring, and a professional?

Food for thought -- for the limited people out there.

The more I think about this most, the more I think the poster has things backwards. Professionals often miss lunch -- if the workday calls for it. Doctors miss lunch, lawyers miss lunch, nurses miss lunch, and just about anyone who IS a professional has missed lunch a time or two. Or had it significantly delayed, to the point where one might as well call it dinner. Vocational service workers are among the first to punch out, no matter what is going on, and go for their break. They meet their friends at noon, they'll be off the unit at noon no matter how many chests we''re opening, codes we're calling or fallen patients we're picking up off the floor. Professionals don't leave when these things are happening.

Nurses are supposed to be professionals; whether we actually ARE or not has been the subject of much debate on this forum and elsewhere. Our professionalism is not enhanced by nurses who loudly decry bullying every time they have a negative interaction with a co-worker. Professionals learn to get along with others on their team, whether they like those others or not. Failure to get along with others is a failure to f function as part of a team. And when the fecal material it's the rotary air movement device, you really need a team behind you.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
You probably weren't around during the time when we had copious threads about now the workplace was full of "crusty old biter nurses" and "ugly old bats" and "old dinosaurs who just ought to retire and get out of my way so I can rock the ER or OR or ICU." Those of us who were around then, and were old enough to be those dinosauers of whom they spoke, rather than whining about how mistreated we were, adopted the term "Crusty Old Bat" in response and wore it proudly. Hospitals may not be recruiting crusty old bats, but most of them realize that the ones they have are pretty darned valuable.

Perhaps that was the wrong position to take. Maybe we should have started a thread about being bullied by younger nurses.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Perhaps that was the wrong position to take. Maybe we should have started a thread about being bullied by younger nurses.

This. :laugh:

Getting popcorn now... ;)

ETA: I actually LOVE how those "crusty" nurses responded to such vitriol...if anything it was a REAL teachable moment; glad it's in the archive,m for all to see and hopefully appreciate as they mature nurse-wise... :whistling:

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I'd like to see more respect for actual victims of bullying by not diluting what they've gone through and using the word "bully" for every freaking time someone doesn't treat a person like the special snowflake that they think they are.

Tyler Clementi. Amanda Todd. Ryan Halligan. Dawn-Marie Wesley. Real VICTIMS.

Your coworkers aren't super supportive? You're not a victim. If you think you are? That's a much bigger problem than someone being short with you.

​Found this in a thread from long ago; still has merit today.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.
The more I think about this most, the more I think the poster has things backwards. Professionals often miss lunch -- if the workday calls for it. Doctors miss lunch, lawyers miss lunch, nurses miss lunch, and just about anyone who IS a professional has missed lunch a time or two. Or had it significantly delayed, to the point where one might as well call it dinner. Vocational service workers are among the first to punch out, no matter what is going on, and go for their break. They meet their friends at noon, they'll be off the unit at noon no matter how many chests we''re opening, codes we're calling or fallen patients we're picking up off the floor. Professionals don't leave when these things are happening.

Having worked in a corporate environment (think large company headquarters with 3000 employees on a single campus), the thought of any one of them, all the way up to CEO, missing a lunch makes me laugh! People would block their calendars from 11 to 1 so that no one would schedule meetings during that time. That didn't change from the time I was an entry-level associate all the way to being middle management.

And I have never seen a nurse leave for lunch break in the middle of a crisis. That is cause for termination, for goodness' sake!

In everyone's effort to support their argument, have we lost sight of what happened? A senior nurse denied an orientee her lunch break, although the senior nurse took hers. All the OPs examples of one nurse to her orientee reek of a pathetic powerplay. Unacceptable, unprofessional behavior.

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Specializes in Critical Care/Vascular Access.
I'm not sure I follow this. Bullying is rampant in children and what kind of power do they possess in order to be considered so?

I think bullying is an action that allows someone to feel powerful, not use a power to be a bully. Pseudo-power.

I'm saying I think that bullying is different than being a tactless, rude person. Sure, tactless and rude people are certainly capable of bullying others, but just being tactless and rude doesn't make you a bully.

Bullying, to me, implies a certain intention to be degrading and tear down another person with no purpose but to show they are more powerful. In the examples the OP gave, the perpetrator was tactless and rude, but they were trying to make a point. I don't agree with how they did it, but I would not call them a bully.

In the case of children who are bullies, they certainly thrive on showing their power over other children. School bullies usually are bullies to show their dominance in some way or another, often to compensate for other ways in which they feel inferior to their victim.

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No one can make you feel inferior without your consent" Eleanor Roosevelt ok so this quote is great however bullies are out there . There is a pecking order in some nursing departments. The nurse is often described as "strong" What they really mean is the nurse is a long term employee protected by the union who thinks just because she has put in time in her department she is entitled to throw around accusations and talk down to the new people or even dismiss all travelers as stupid when infact they are not. The strong nurse didn't take the time to show them the ropes . The strong gets away with bad behavior and even sucks in management . Childish unprofessional behavior is rampant in nursing . Nurse should be able to enjoy a safe work environment, joke with each other in a nice way instead of feeling intimated by a "strong" bully nurse. This is not about victimization its about recognizing that this behavior goes on and it needs to change ...now

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Ugh sad that these have actually happened, RNdynamic you posted something in "im sure to get flamed for this" about insecure preceptors on power trips just trying to get their egos filled. All of these exemplify those to me. These preceptors would not have acted the same way toward something they considered their equal or even their superior. All these actions are dominated by a nurse on a power trip.

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The definition of strong nurse should never include bullying. A strong nurse has experience, great critical thinking, good skills, and documents appropriately. I think this thread is going off course. I have had MANY shifts where I did not eat, drink, go to the bathroom, or even sit due to the health of my patients. If everyone coming into nursing thought this was an easy job, go find somewhere else to work.

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Specializes in SICU.

Then you are not as observant as you think you are. (OP)..

MD's are the WORST! when it comes to talking down to each other...however, I have yet to hear them refer to it as bullying, it all comes with the territory especially in a busy academic medical center (speaking as an ICU RN in a large academic medical center) people are busy and short/to the point

also, lets all not labor under the illusion that as a new nurse on orientation we are owed lunch....where did that come from?? Have many times have we missed lunch when we are on our own? sometimes the day gets ahead of you and it is not bullying....

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent" Eleanor Roosevelt ok so this quote is great however bullies are out there . There is a pecking order in some nursing departments. The nurse is often described as "strong" What they really mean is the nurse is a long term employee protected by the union who thinks just because she has put in time in her department she is entitled to throw around accusations and talk down to the new people or even dismiss all travelers as stupid when in fact they are not. The strong nurse didn't take the time to show them the ropes . The strong gets away with bad behavior and even sucks in management . Childish unprofessional behavior is rampant in nursing . Nurse should be able to enjoy a safe work environment, joke with each other in a nice way instead of feeling intimated by a "strong" bully nurse. This is not about victimization its about recognizing that this behavior goes on and it needs to change ...now

I never said there were not bullies out there....I am saying I control how I feel abut myself.

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Specializes in ICU.
also, lets all not labor under the illusion that as a new nurse on orientation we are owed lunch....where did that come from?? Have many times have we missed lunch when we are on our own? sometimes the day gets ahead of you and it is not bullying....

No, new nurses on orientation are not specifically owed lunch... any worker that works for a company that deducts pay from a shift for lunch is owed lunch. This group of people does include new nurses on orientation. Assuming the OP is not salaried, she is owed lunch because it is deducted from her paycheck, and if she is denied her lunch, I'm really hoping she's going back and writing "no lunch" in her unit's time log so she's getting compensated for the work she's doing.

Yes, the day gets ahead of me sometimes, too, but I always make time for lunch anyway since I'm getting paid for 12 hours of work during the 12.5 hours that I am scheduled. I don't much care for working for free, and I don't think OP should have to work for free just because her preceptor doesn't want to cover her lunch.

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