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Discussion

bosses working on the floor

I'm a nursing student precepting and I was listening to some of the nurses talk about this new program they are instituting. It's a program on how to be nice to the patients, it my understanding that it's a special program that the administrator had purchased in order to make the stay of the patients better. While I was listening to these nurses talk about this, I wondered if this administrator had ever been on a nursing floor. I asked one of the nurses if this administrator had a medical degree and the answer was no apparently he has an M.B.A which is great, but my question is how can he decide about what is best for these patients if he doesn't have any experience on a medical floor, I feel that these people should have to get out on the floor and work with the patients in order to get a better feel for what the nurses are going through. Any thoughts?

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    one time we were severely shortstaffed, so much so that don, adon, and administrator had to take pts.

    administrator (no nsg background) took her sweet time with 1 patient...

    as if there were no more, and even made a comment "this is fun".

    talk about being far removed from nsg reality.

    nurses need to run their own depts - no mba's or other non-nsg majors....ONLY nsg experience need apply.

    leslie

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    one time we were severely shortstaffed, so much so that don, adon, and administrator had to take pts.

    administrator (no nsg background) took her sweet time with 1 patient...

    as if there were no more, and even made a comment "this is fun".

    talk about being far removed from nsg reality.

    nurses need to run their own depts - no mba's or other non-nsg majors....ONLY nsg experience need apply.

    leslie

    Is it even legal for non-licensed personnel to "take" a patient? When you say "take" patients, do you mean acting in the scope of an RN o and LPN? Or wiping a little hiney and taking BP's and temps?

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    It is legal for non licensed personnel to "take" a patient to xray, or "take" specimens to the lab, or fill ice pitchers, or make beds, or empty bedside commodes, or pass lunch trays, or pick up dirty trays and write intakes. It is legal for them to pass snacks.

    They should try it sometime.

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    I'm a nurse manager who every day works with patients. Granted, I'm in ambulatory, but still....I like both nursing and management (well, sorta!) and I get to do the patient education I love, patients like the idea that "their" nurse is also the department manager, and NO ONE can say I don't know what it's like at the bedside :)

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    • Guides

    Funny sight: watching the owner of our LTC do ADL's... LOL!!!

    But... god love him, because he did it.

    We had such severe weather that very few of us could get to work and we needed all the help we could get.

    I'd like to think he developed an even better appreciation for us that day.

    That said, I never understood how someone could be your boss... if they have never done your job!!!

    I never did appreciate being told how to do something by a person who has never done it and who-- if actually forced to be in my shoes-- would probably drop to the floor in the fetal position and cry.

    Ah. But so it is.

    Cheers.

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    Is it even legal for non-licensed personnel to "take" a patient? When you say "take" patients, do you mean acting in the scope of an RN o and LPN? Or wiping a little hiney and taking BP's and temps?

    oh...sorry...yes, assisting with adl's, bathing.

    what really ticked me off, is this was inpatient hospice so no, not "fun".

    leslie

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    Get used to it. It is bad enough when the nurse manager/administrators are so far removed from thier actual nursing/medical careers. It is even more sickening when they never had any nursing/medical/health background!!!!!!!!!!Everyone knows how to do nursings job more than any nurse and will tell you this over and over and over again

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    • Expert

    ONce upon a time......long, long time ago. Nurses were promoted based upon their stellar performance and expertise as a nurse in the trenches. NUrses had a common education. They all started out equal.....at the bedside. Your manager, DON, VP of nursing, CNO....all spent their fair share at the bedside shoveling the day to day stuff caring and learning at the bedside until their leadership qualities and expertise made them stand apart. They were mentored and molded to be the leaders we

    deserved. We respected them and they respected us so that when they suggested a way to improve our patients care (evidenced practice) we listened and respected their point of view knowing they had been there done that before....the opinion had weight.

    Then something changed. Promotions were according to how much money you borrowed for more degrees and the respect for the learned professional at the bedside diminished. I worked at a very large hospital as a supervisor. After budget cuts there was no longer 24/7 supervision, except on weekends. The managers took care of it during the day and shared "call" with administration from 4 til 7p when we arrived (and generally made a hornets nest). My boss a brilliant lady who had spent many years in school obtaining her PhD and was VP of nursing and patient care services.

    One day she was covering the house and paged me when I arrived telling me she had already left and asked me to check an IV in the psych unit the nurses had questions about it as it was a "special IV" while I did nit expect the psych nurse to know how to deal with this medical device I shocked when I asked my boss if it was a PICC, Multi Lumen, or a port by her description. Her response to me was that she hadn't looked at it as she knew I could look at it when I got there, she doesn't know anything about them anyway (ok I get it I guess) and besides they were all the same anyhow , right? Well.....no they are not. I have to admit when ever I hear her carry on about evidenced practice from that point on I looked at her differently.

    I don't think returning to diploma grads is the answer but the basis of the practice of bedside experience before promotion has it's place. Walking a mile in someone's shoes gives a whole new prespective to the decision making process. I have always felt that hiring the degree would lead nursing down a path that may not be where we want to go. Many places, especially for profit, are hiring the MBA to manage for profit. Taking care of sick humans is expensive and it's wrong to make decisions in favour of the dollar profit margin and sacrific competent clinical care. It's a path I am not liking where it may lead. Comming out of the office to "play" is not the experience a manager should have.........it's why I stopped managing and went back to clinical coordinator at the bedside.

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    one time we were severely shortstaffed, so much so that don, adon, and administrator had to take pts.

    administrator (no nsg background) took her sweet time with 1 patient...

    as if there were no more, and even made a comment "this is fun".

    talk about being far removed from nsg reality.

    nurses need to run their own depts - no mba's or other non-nsg majors....ONLY nsg experience need apply.

    leslie

    I've thought about getting my MBA.

    I could develop reports and nifty graphs filled with data that supports how nursing staff is doing it wrong.

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    .

    I don't think returning to diploma grads is the answer but the basis of the practice of bedside experience before promotion had it's place. .

    Fixed it for you.

    :)

    Let's get real. It's about money.

    In my specialty of dialysis (which I consider a portent and excellent marker of future health care trends), "clinic managers" or what have you, can be very loosely defined and therefore..cheap.

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    Nursing is a highly respected profession. Business Administration is a highly respected profession. I think it makes people look very unprofessional when they make statements like "I've thought about getting my MBA. I could develop reports and nifty graphs filled with data that supports how nursing staff is doing it wrong." Its like someone saying, "Oh, I should've been a nurse, so I could read magazines and gossip at the nurse's station." These are obviously very wrong, false, and ridiculous statements. There are good administrators and bad ones, just as there is good/bad nurses. The well-managed and successful facilities are ones that implement teamwork, staff input, and an overall good management. The animosity between the nursing staff and administration is not resolving anything.

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    Forgive us. From what I've seen on tv, you can become a company CEO about a decade after you're born if your father is out of town. And if you wear makeup, you're obviously more than qualified to create and run a cosmetics division. So I'm not sure that it does take that much to be an administrator.

    Considering healthcare management seems to think that a hospital only needs about as many nurses to run it as one would see on House or Grey's Anatomy, as evidenced by the continued cutting of nursing staff, I'm going to base my views of their job on tv too.

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