This may come off as more of a vent, but I see white new grads, some with less nursing and healthcare education than myself, getting jobs, some of them highly coveted specialties. Yet here I am, with a BSN, magna cum laude, three years health care experience, new grad getting pushed aside. I interview well, but apparently not good enough. I am starting to feel bitter and can't help but wonder if my race might play a role. Other black new grads (BSNs too) are having a much harder time getting a job than white new grads.
Any black nurses want to comment on this phenomenon?
I am starting to look outside of my state, but I am not sure where to start. Preferably a place that is diverse.
people insist through this whole thread on refusing to be color blind while at the same time begging 100% sameness in treatment. One....or the other.
Why are these concepts mutually exclusive? Isn't "cultural competence" the act of recognizing racial and/or cultural differences and responding respectfully and compassionately?
Let me word this in a different way......
Large white mullet-wearing man with a beard down to his boobs, breath reeking of moonshine, clothes filthy with burn holes in his shirt, and confederate flags tattooed to both biceps walks in. Chances are you recognize this man is culturally different than you. Shouldn't he still receive equal treatment?
Btw, you've mentioned a couple of times that you grew up in government housing. I'm really curious what your connection between that and this conversation is.
Interesting post! Well my name is straight from Africa! I'm a new grad looking for jobs now. I love in the north east.. So we will see who gets hired first.. My classmates. All with no experience, same grades, I have better references and internship, only difference is I'm black and they are white... Waiting game. I will def follow up! Hope all works out for you OP !
You still have differences. Also order of application matters. I and another student interviewed with the same boss one day apart. We were both equally qualified. We both had a pleasant interview. They chose to hire her instead. Sexism? Ageism? No. I think they felt she would be a better fit for their unit. Sadly she failed to graduate and I found a unit that I felt was a better fit for me. So I dunno who got "our spot".
Why are these concepts mutually exclusive? Isn't "cultural competence" the act of recognizing racial and/or cultural differences and responding respectfully and compassionately?
Let me word this in a different way......
Large white mullet-wearing man with a beard down to his boobs, breath reeking of moonshine, clothes filthy with burn holes in his shirt, and confederate flags tattooed to both biceps walks in. Chances are you recognize this man is culturally different than you. Shouldn't he still receive equal treatment?
Btw, you've mentioned a couple of times that you grew up in government housing. I'm really curious what your connection between that and this conversation is.
Growing up in government housing was a unique exlerience. It contributed to my view that all humans have equal potential.
Yes, mullet guy has equal rights. Mullet guy might also be a BACA biker with a heart of gold and one of the best people you might meet. Just like a Big Black guy with gold teeth and D12 blaring out of his stereo system might be an awesome peewee football coach who helps kids get their lives right while playing a game and learning teamwork.
This is my entire point. Equal means equal. Color be damned.
Eta: what I keep reading is more like: cars and trucks are both equally good. But need to be driven differently. My point is that we are ALL the same vehicle, just with different paint.
I never said you would not have been shot. I asked if you thought you would have been shot multiple times while you fought back, had you had a gun. I never even opined. I simply asked. Then you got upset and refused to talk about the experience that you had brought up to substantiate your position, as I recall.
Well, you may not lobby against me, per se, but I write my senators and ATF agents to keep bills of the ilk you showed support for from being passed. So I guess round about ways we lobby "against each other".
Not to rehash, but I support common sense in my delivery; again, you seem to miss the mark in your communication; If you want to discuss this on the other thread; let's do it there; but I already discussed my stance on there and you seem to, AGAIN, have an issue with ignoring another viewpoint, and continue to cling to your viewpoints; again, not being empathetic enough to understand-I will add that since I already discussed it, you can continue this conversation over there by yourself.
And as to understanding...if you're not Black, you never could. That's the message, right? Because I've been a minority in an area before. I just haven't been a Black minority. So I'm sorry if I wandered into the "Black or those who wish to pat OP on the back only" thread.
More ignorance secondary to "white privilege" being spewed; you continue to think we are "patting ourselves on the back" instead of having an intelligent discussion...
Why is that?
The whole thread into have been asking why the heck people want to drag race into things. Why everything must be racist. Etc. People have provided excuse after excuse to make issues racial. So I guess that's how they will stay. Color continues and will continue to matter because people want it to. Sad.
Yes, it's sad that color continues to define and labels have been places on blacks since the chains that were removed from slaves 150 years ago; it won't be solved in a day, a week, maybe generations when the exact things that you JUST said: "why do we have to being color into it" can stopped being uttered from people's mouths that decide to not gain understanding of how it truly means to live where people DON'T think Black people are smart, not always on welfare, the code words (Google "welfare queens" and systematic institutional racism (Google redlining) as well as our relationship with the police, courts, and prisons-there's a wealth of information that the Internet has but it seems as though not everyone uses it to their advantage-Google is your best friend to understand what barriers are in place for minorities that whites can get around SOLELY because they are he majority, even in paces where whites are in the minority, there are still opportunities to become upwardly mobile faster than ANY minority.
This whole thread I've been told that Blacks must be treated different because they are.
WRONG.
This thread has presented viewpoints that Blacks are treated DIFFERENTLY at times due to people who are in a position of power that do not believe that we are just as hardworking, smart, and reliable; there are people that do believe the stereotypes and they continue to be perpetuated and can be imbedded into a person's viewpoint, presenting a barrier for advancement; this is an intelligent conversation of a musing and a rant that it may be a possible issue because of our past experiences.
Here I've tried to treat people like people, while avoiding typing them based on how they grew up etc. But I digress. It seems people wish to be stereotyped?
Really?
So off the mark with your question that people WANT to be stereotyped.
Many posters have pointed out your delivery-inflammatory at times-has done NOTHING to contribute to the conversation because, despite your upbringing, you still have no clue what it means to be profiled, harassed by cops for just walking down the street, or even arrested in front of their own home because they don't think that a black man can afford a home in an affluent area; to even being looked at with trepidation or even someone recoil from you when you touch them if you place a blood pressure cuff on them AFTER telling them that you are going to place the cuff on their arm (true story); if you have those experiences, than please share; but DON'T diminish the experiences of others where there have experienced; especially with the history of blacks in America; it has not been a picnic; and that is the TRUTH, not an illusion, and definitely NOT "wishing" to be stereotyped-we want EQUALITY without the loopholes into roadblocks and the drama of being questioned about merely
Not to rehash, but I support common sense in my delivery; again, you seem to miss the mark in your communication; If you want to discuss this on the other thread; let's do it there; but I already discussed my stance on there and you seem to, AGAIN, have an issue with ignoring another viewpoint, and continue to cling to your viewpoints; again, not being empathetic enough to understand-I will add that since I already discussed it, you can continue this conversation over there by yourself.
More ignorance secondary to "white privilege" being spewed; you continue to think we are "patting ourselves on the back" instead of having an intelligent discussion...
Why is that?
Yes, it's sad that color continues to define and labels have been places on blacks since the chains that were removed from slaves 150 years ago; it won't be solved in a day, a week, maybe generations when the exact things that you JUST said: "why do we have to being color into it" can stopped being uttered from people's mouths that decide to not gain understanding of how it truly means to live where people DON'T think Black people are smart, not always on welfare, the code words (Google "welfare queens" and systematic institutional racism (Google redlining) as well as our relationship with the police, courts, and prisons-there's a wealth of information that the Internet has but it seems as though not everyone uses it to their advantage-Google is your best friend to understand what barriers are in place for minorities that whites can get around SOLELY because they are he majority, even in paces where whites are in the minority, there are still opportunities to become upwardly mobile faster than ANY minority.
WRONG.
This thread has presented viewpoints that Blacks are treated DIFFERENTLY at times due to people who are in a position of power that do not believe that we are just as hardworking, smart, and reliable; there are people that do believe the stereotypes and they continue to be perpetuated and can be imbedded into a person's viewpoint, presenting a barrier for advancement; this is an intelligent conversation of a musing and a rant that it may be a possible issue because of our past experiences.
Really?
So off the mark with your question that people WANT to be stereotyped.
Many posters have pointed out your delivery-inflammatory at times-has done NOTHING to contribute to the conversation because, despite your upbringing, you still have no clue what it means to be profiled, harassed by cops for just walking down the street, or even arrested in front of their own home because they don't think that a black man can afford a home in an affluent area; to even being looked at with trepidation or even someone recoil from you when you touch them if you place a blood pressure cuff on them AFTER telling them that you are going to place the cuff on their arm (true story); if you have those experiences, than please share; but DON'T diminish the experiences of others where there have experienced; especially with the history of blacks in America; it has not been a picnic; and that is the TRUTH, not an illusion, and definitely NOT "wishing" to be stereotyped.
Yeah, I've had those experiences. Yeah, I've been traded for another nurse because of my physical attributes. Yeah, I've lived places where I couldn't get a job because I didn't speak the right languages (which was legit imo, not complaining).
But you know what? From age zero I was raised in a multicultural environment. I've had friends of almost literally every culture. I've worked for minority companies.
I've failed to somehow see how being white or being Black affects me or who I deal with. It shouldn't and it doesn't.
The rest of the world can keep doing its own thing. I'll keep being colorblind. However, this thread did make me think. Far less than half of the people I am close to are White. So I must be doing something right with regards to looking at people and not skin. I never really thought about the ethnic makeup of my friends until now. Indian, Hispanic, Black, White, Filipino, and others. Somehow we all manage to get along without acting different around each other. Although watching a Black friend rag on a Filipino friend of mine for wearing FUBU was amusing, somehow noone got stressed out over it.
I dunno. People put too much into color. Too little into "fact". That's my whole rub with this thread.
After reading further, unbiased data, it does seem that Blacks are on the short end of the "getting hired" stick. That's sucks. But why? So many factors. One thing certainly could be racism, but I'd like to see it better defined rather than just jumped on as low hanging fruit for fora reason one wasn't hured.
Also...if you don't fit...move! No matter what color you are. Just my .02 there. My friend LeRoy has hell in Austin. He loved Toronto. So why not move where he is accepted equally? Sadly it seems some people will always be racist. Why not avoid them? Birds of a feather...nothing wrong with that.
It is not that you are "too white" to understand, it is that you are too ignorant and close-minded to care to understand.
I am not sure what you are getting out of this, but I find it pathetic that you feel the need to degrade and diminish others. That is sad.
This could have been a great thread, but you continue to trash and ruin it and make it all about you. Thanks a lot.
Empathy implies understanding. OP feels that I'm too white to understand.
Anyway...I simply dislike what I call "the race card". Through zero evidence presented, OP blames her inability to get hired they have automatically fallen on "well...im Black. It's racist!"
So...if it is racist...that's not okay...but tell us how you arrived at that conclusion with more than "suspicions". OP has reduced herself to "Black" and her cohorts to "not black". Blaming the entire disparity on color and racism while ignoring personal attributes. With no specific reason. That is what I took issue with.
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
you still have no clue what it means to be profiled, harassed by cops for just walking down the street, or even arrested in front of their own home because they don't think that a black man can afford a home in an affluent area;
Several years ago, at a fast food place, a clerk swiped my ATM card. It didn't immediately go through. She loudly announced, "There's no money on this card!" After a second swipe the purchase went through. At the time there was more than $50,000 in that account. This is not the first time a clerk or cashier has incorrectly swiped my card and erroneously concluded there was "no money."
I've had solicitors knock on my front door and ask to speak to the lady of the house. Even after telling them I'm the 'lady' of the house, they rephrase: "I need to speak to the homeowner." Annoyed, I confirm I'm the homeowner, and a surprised look overcomes the solicitors' faces. I should mention I live in an upscale suburb.
I've been followed in stores and accused of stealing. I no longer pay for purchases with personal checks because, even though the account has a five-figure balance, merchants think I am broke and have insufficient funds to cover the amount.
Due to stereotypes regarding educational attainment, I am often presumed to be one of the cooks, housekeepers, dietary aides, or clerks.
It is not that you are "too white" to understand, it is that you are too ignorant and close-minded to care to understand.
I am not sure what you are getting out of this, but I find it pathetic that you feel the need to degrade and diminish others. That is sad.
This could have been a great thread, but you continue to trash and ruin it and make it all about you. Thanks a lot.
My apologies. As noted, I am White. I shouldn't have posted in this thread. Apologies.
This may come off as more of a vent, but I see white new grads, some with less nursing and healthcare education than myself, getting jobs, some of them highly coveted specialties. Yet here I am, with a BSN, magna cum laude, three years health care experience, new grad getting pushed aside. I interview well, but apparently not good enough. I am starting to feel bitter and can't help but wonder if my race might play a role. Other black new grads (BSNs too) are having a much harder time getting a job than white new grads.
Any black nurses want to comment on this phenomenon?
I am starting to look outside of my state, but I am not sure where to start. Preferably a place that is diverse.
By sight, one would have a hard time distinguishing what my ethnicity is.
I live in a fairly affluent area. But that makes me far, far from affluent. My grandparents were immigrants long before there were many of them. My family, and myself have worked long and hard to be in a place that we are comfortable. If there is some sort of "white privilege" that doesn't apply to a great deal of people I know, including me.
I know that the diversity that is sought in the area in which I live has to do with the language, customs, culture of the largest ethnicity of the patients in the area.
Racism is everywhere. I had not a clue why Jamaicans would "click" their tongues when encountering an African person. Why we have nurses from Asian countries who are highly offended when their language barrier outweighed their education (which their education is not the same as in America). Hispanic Spanish speakers are highly offended that Brazil born Portugese speaking patients are lumped all together, and just speak Spanish.....it goes on and on.....
Now if OP, you had said that you are fluent in the languages of your area, (because that is one less translator a facility has to pay for) that you are learned in the cultural nuances of the predominant ethnicities in your area (because that helps PG scores) then I would say that perhaps it is a race thing. However, color of skin has not a thing to do with cultural competency. And that is the main thing that diversity means in my experience, in my area, in the facilities I am familiar with.
True story--2 people of color. Both wanting same job. One is fluent in 2 languages, can discuss cultural needs of predominant patient population. Other can get by with a little Spanish, but not familiar with any cultural mores. Guess what? Skin color had not a thing to do with this picture. Then Caucasian person gets in the mix. Doesn't have any language, vague regarding culture. The person of color that can adapt to language and culture gets the job.
In order for my child to get a job, fluency in language and culture is a requirement. Color of skin is a non-issue.
Specializes in Pain Management, FNP, Med/Surg, Tele.
I know it's rough for new grads all around, but yea....
I'm white as they come and I believe that this happens, OP. And I'm sorry. I live in NY and I think it happens a LOT less here. Come on up!
As long as you have your BSN.
I agree, I live and work in NYC also and it's the other way around I think. My unit only has 1 Caucasian nurse and he is on the day shift, there are no Caucasians on the night shift. The rest of the nurses range from Filipinos , Caribbeans, Africans and Indians, oh and there is one Chinese nurse on day shift.
This is a fascinating thread. So many different points of view - many very articulate responses.... some not so much.
I'm old enough to have discovered that it is not wise to ever try to discount anyone's point of view. People who have been on the receiving end of an unpleasant experience are far more sensitive to it than others. For example, survivors of violence are much more sensitive to violent overtones / facial expressions or body language. They would pick up on these cues while the rest of us may remain 'clueless'. So - if anyone tells me that they are being discriminated against - I take their comment at face value. Just as I would believe any other statements of personal experience or belief. We don't try to convince people that they're not feeling pain - why would we discount other feelings?
If you have the time - click on this link and read the lyrics / listen to the song "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist" - from Avenue Q. Says it all.
This is a fascinating thread. So many different points of view - many very articulate responses.... some not so much.
I'm old enough to have discovered that it is not wise to ever try to discount anyone's point of view. People who have been on the receiving end of an unpleasant experience are far more sensitive to it than others. For example, survivors of violence are much more sensitive to violent overtones / facial expressions or body language. They would pick up on these cues while the rest of us may remain 'clueless'. So - if anyone tells me that they are being discriminated against - I take their comment at face value. Just as I would believe any other statements of personal experience or belief. We don't try to convince people that they're not feeling pain - why would we discount other feelings?
If you have the time - click on this link and read the lyrics / listen to the song "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist" - from Avenue Q. Says it all.
Such an excellent comment. Some of the people in this thread are so very disappointing as humans, and they don't even realize it. Yeesh!
ixchel
4,547 Posts
Why are these concepts mutually exclusive? Isn't "cultural competence" the act of recognizing racial and/or cultural differences and responding respectfully and compassionately?
Let me word this in a different way......
Large white mullet-wearing man with a beard down to his boobs, breath reeking of moonshine, clothes filthy with burn holes in his shirt, and confederate flags tattooed to both biceps walks in. Chances are you recognize this man is culturally different than you. Shouldn't he still receive equal treatment?
Btw, you've mentioned a couple of times that you grew up in government housing. I'm really curious what your connection between that and this conversation is.