Atheist or Agnostic?

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Apr 4, 2006

What if the atheists are wrong? What if there really is a God, a heaven and a hell and those who do not believe in Jesus really do go to hell? If what the "religious fanatics" say is true, what will these people do then....if there really is no second chance except what we do and believe here on earth? Many people may say, "Well I dont want to believe in a God that would send good, moral people to hell." Who are we to say what God should do? We did not create the universe...we do not get a vote if God really is in charge. I think if all of this is true, it really wont matter how intelligent you are....God may not care if we say "Hey if you would have just shown me solid, scientific proof I would have believed." I know I will now be labeled by some as one of those psycho religious nuts, but I just wanted to express a different view than what has been discussed on the majority of the thread. And I do agree that everyone has a right to their own beliefs...just thought I would ask what if Christians were right?

Then I'm screwed. Eternally.

:shrug:

You know what I'm curious about? This board has a bazillion "Let's start a prayer thread" kinds of threads going on and I haven't even opened them because I have no business in there. But the Christians seem to be coming out of the woodwork on this one.

:confused:

limabean · Apr 4, 2006

Sorry you feel that way, I will keep my mouth shut.

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Apr 4, 2006

Sorry you feel that way, I will keep my mouth shut.

No, it isn't that, limabean, I just really don't get why religious people always need to question those who aren't. I mean, I wouldn't consider saying to you, "I can't believe you buy that stuff." I'll say it among those who believe as I do, or to someone to whom I am very close and not in that way, but I feel no need to question strangers about it. Yet it doesn't seem to work the other way around. It really wasn't meant as a slam at you because you're, you know, a nice person. But I've noticed in the last some odd pages this discussion is taking a different tone because the faithful are dropping in to have a say.

allnurses Guide · Apr 4, 2006

Definition of religiosity:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religiosity
Definition of religion (religiosity definition relies on definition of religion)
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religion
There are of course vast degrees of religiosity. I myself by being a member of a Unitarian church am engaging in religiosity. An atheist who does not attend any church or spiritual service would not be engaging in religiosity. A fundamentalist Muslim who is orthodox would be engaging in a higher degree of religiosity than me. Many shades of gray w/religiosity.

I don't agree that I am engaging in "religiosity" . . . . I don't excessively do anything regarding religion towards other people.

I do try very hard to show grace and love - but that is hardly religiosity.

steph

CHATSDALE · Apr 4, 2006

sus please put out a sign saying no one who disagrees welcome here

just sharing our views in an unjudgemental way

personally i have never seen any differance in the intellect of believers vs unbelievers i have no evidence of the credentials of the those who did the 'research' but i would bet my retirement fund that they had formed opinions before the research was started..i bet they used a grant from tax money or they would have been out working for a living [can i supersize that for you sir]

besides as lima said...if he heathens are wrong they are going to be in a hell of place

allnurses Guide · Apr 4, 2006

No, it isn't that, limabean, I just really don't get why religious people always need to question those who aren't. I mean, I wouldn't consider saying to you, "I can't believe you buy that stuff." I'll say it among those who believe as I do, or to someone to whom I am very close and not in that way, but I feel no need to question strangers about it. Yet it doesn't seem to work the other way around. It really wasn't meant as a slam at you because you're, you know, a nice person. But I've noticed in the last some odd pages this discussion is taking a different tone because the faithful are dropping in to have a say.

I came into the discussion due to the op's original question regarding sharing information with patients. The thread has gone where it has gone due to all the posters . . .it flows a certain way due to one person responding to another.

I also never say to a stranger or even someone I know "I can't believe you buy stuff".

I do love a discussion though - and have no problem discussing if the other person has no problem discussing.

steph

allnurses Guide · Apr 4, 2006

Way to just dismiss facts.

Actually I was on my way to the store and had to cut it short but I thought many things regarding this person's hypothesis.

That you can't necessarily blame abortion rates and murder rates and suicide rates on the level of religious belief. And who did this guy measure? And what about the Church of England being part of the government and there is no separation of church and state there? And how to make a direct correlation between religion in one particular period of history when there are many other reasons for the murder rate, suicide rate, abortion rate (that is directly tied to abortion being legal I would think), etc.

I just think he was wrong - he used his own ideas to prove something that he already believed in. That is how people can use statistics for their own benefit.

Actually, I've always thought that because most kids in America have gotten the chicken pox vaccine and since then there is a huge increase in obesity, it must be because of the chicken pox virus.

Ya gotta be real careful with scientific studies.

steph

leslie :-D · Apr 4, 2006

I just really don't get why religious people always need to question those who aren't. I mean, I wouldn't consider saying to you, "I can't believe you buy that stuff." I'll say it among those who believe as I do, or to someone to whom I am very close and not in that way, but I feel no need to question strangers about it. Yet it doesn't seem to work the other way around. It really wasn't meant as a slam at you because you're, you know, a nice person. But I've noticed in the last some odd pages this discussion is taking a different tone because the faithful are dropping in to have a say.

you know, i've never read a Bible in my life. i can count on one hand the number of times i've attended church. i have an amazingly intimate and personal relationship with God. i continue to grow and prosper through His Grace.

my closest friends are Christians: they know every scripture in the Bible. when i first learned that God would never accept me if i didn't accept Jesus Christ as His Son, i almost blew a gasket. i was insulted, mortified and downright indignant. i still don't believe it. yet that doesn't stop me from conversing with Him sev'l times a day. it doesn't stop me from deeply and ferverently loving Him, as i know how much He loves me. i would never think to try and impose my beliefs on anyone else. i don't appreciate it when others' beliefs are imposed on me. and when i meet someone who doesn't believe in a God, i quietly take pity on them. but i would never be so bold as to preach. so if there are people that know i am doomed to hell, then so be it. that's their belief. i'm very secure in my God. i think if we were all secure, there wouldn't be the need to be so vocal in the word of God/Christ and we could coexist peacefully. imagine that.:balloons:

leslie

leslie :-D · Apr 4, 2006

Actually I was on my way to the store and had to cut it short but I thought many things regarding this person's hypothesis.
That you can't necessarily blame abortion rates and murder rates and suicide rates on the level of religious belief. And who did this guy measure? And what about the Church of England being part of the government and there is no separation of church and state there? And how to make a direct correlation between religion in one particular period of history when there are many other reasons for the murder rate, suicide rate, abortion rate (that is directly tied to abortion being legal I would think), etc.
I just think he was wrong - he used his own ideas to prove something that he already believed in. That is how people can use statistics for their own benefit.
Actually, I've always thought that because most kids in America have gotten the chicken pox vaccine and since then there is a huge increase in obesity, it must be because of the chicken pox virus.
Ya gotta be real careful with scientific studies.
steph

steph,

i provided a link that negated the article.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Apr 4, 2006

I don't think you HAVE to "believe", per se. I think it's important that you KNOW in your heart what's wrong and what's right (I feel safe in saying there are certain moral truths that we all agree in - be nice to little old ladies trying to cross the street, don't go around killing people like Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy did, be nice to little babies, don't beat your dog, don't torture helpless creatures, bugs, etc - fly sprays and swats are other matters - be good to your parents, try not to deliberately hurt people, "do the right thing" - you get my point), live as decent a life as possible, and have your affairs as in order as possible when you die so your family doesn't have to go around digging up wills and policies - live as any decent person would, and I think you go to Heaven, or a Higher Place, or whatever it is you feel you do when you die. If you think this is it, well, then, that's fine too. I would say that as long as you live as a decent person, it doesn't matter if this IS indeed it - because the pleasantness of your memory will continue to live long after you leave this earth.

I would like to believe there IS a Heaven; I would hate to think I will never ever see my daddy or my grandparents or anyone I've loved again. My father, who was raised Catholic, said what he thought, smoked a lot, drank a little, and God knows he cussed like the sailor he was. But he always did right by other people; he was a corpsman in Vietnam and I know there are men walking around today because of things he did for them; he believed in God, Heaven, and otherwise...and if it was good enough for him, then it's good enough for me.

I believe in free will; I believe that questioning what we're told is the entire point of it all; I believe there is room for all kinds and I happen to believe that that is the way God made it and us - and I believe the most interesting question is, WHAT IF WE'RE ALL WRONG?

For me, I would be scared if I didn't believe in God. The thought that this MIGHT be it scares the crap out of me....if that's me being led like a lemming, well, I'm a lemming. But although I'm no longer a regular churchgoer I believe I know God too, and the God I know has room for everyone - even if I don't understand Him sometimes (can God REALLY forgive a serial killer? Why do little kids die nasty deaths?) - because I'm not meant to completely understand everything. Otherwise, I would.

I live my life the best way I know how - and hope I make my daddy, my grandparents, my ancestors, my GOD proud in the process. I screw up; hey, I'm human. But it's the knowing right from wrong that makes the difference - to me, anyway - REGARDLESS of personal religious beliefs. I don't think you're meant to hurt people, or animals, or the planet on purpose. Life is a gift, and where it came from is really irrelevant, isn't it, in the grand scheme of things?

To each their own. That's what keeps us all here, after all.

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Apr 4, 2006

I've been reading the last several pages of this thread, and I am just blown away by the incredible array of differences among people who I'm reasonably certain are all good of heart and noble of purpose. (We are nurses, aren't we? :nurse: ) What an amazing thing it is to respect each other regardless of those differences, and to 'live and let live', as the old saying goes.

For my part, I've always been a believer, and when I was going through college, studying the miracle that is the human body, my faith only grew stronger, for we truly are "fearfully and wonderfully made".

That said, I almost must admit that I'm not religious, at least not in any traditional sense. I don't think they even have a religion for what I am, which is a combination of lapsed Catholic, onetime Baptist, liberal Congregationalist, and Native American, with a sprinkling of Eastern mysticism and holistic practices thrown in for flavoring. I figure that anything that brings you out of yourself, inspires you to do good in the service of humankind, and makes you aware of a Power greater than yourself, can't be all wrong. So I don't rule out any faith tradition; I simply incorporate what speaks to me from each one I study into my own spirituality.

I also do not look down on atheists or agnostics. I don't understand how another person can look at a newborn baby, or even the splendor of the autumn trees, and NOT see a miracle of God. But it's up to each person to find their own way to Him, and for many different reasons, some never do. Whether it's bad experiences from the past, or the harsh reality that evil and tragedy exist in this world, or simply a lack of desire to seek God doesn't matter; I don't think it's my place to judge or condemn anyone for their beliefs........or lack thereof.

And that's all I have to say about THAT.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 4, 2006

A real key is to search yourself and see if you have any feelings of superiority over another human being.
steph

I think we all have to come to some sort of understanding that what we personally believe is right and true for us, and to superior other thoughts and religions. Why bet your soul on something that you feel is not superior to the rest for you personally?

They key is to remember that doesn't make us superior human being or more precious than anyone else. Some people have a hard time presenting themselves without coming across as thinking those who don't believe as they do are less than. Muslims do this to Christians and Jews. Christians do this to others as well. Kind of makes for bad blood.