Atheist or Agnostic?

firstyearstudent · Apr 4, 2006

Ugh. I'm sorry I posted this. But many of the posts answer my original question. "Quite possibly."

firstyearstudent · Apr 4, 2006

I came into the discussion due to the op's original question regarding sharing information with patients. The thread has gone where it has gone due to all the posters . . .it flows a certain way due to one person responding to another.
I also never say to a stranger or even someone I know "I can't believe you buy stuff".
I do love a discussion though - and have no problem discussing if the other person has no problem discussing.
steph

Step, I am the original poster and I didn't have any question abour sharing information with patients. (I would probably never do this unless I was positive it would be therapeutic.)

I wanted to know if I, as a nurse, I was going to be working with mostly religious people. And also, if I would feel uncomfortable in that environment as an atheist.

ljds · Apr 4, 2006

I wanted to know if I, as a nurse, I was going to be working with mostly religious people. And also, if I would feel uncomfortable in that environment as an atheist.

Here's my answer:

I am an athiest. Not an agnostic, a true, straight up athiest. I've never had a problem, even when I worked in a clinic that had a very conservative religious population. I respect others' views, they respect mine. I'm not insecure about my lack of faith in a diety; I don't think that people who *do* put faith and belief in a deity are stupid or ignorant, they've just found a different way to think about things than I have.

I've had pts ask me to pray with them; I just bow my head and think good thoughts for them. That's what they want me to do; in my mind, it's the solidarity, the recognition and validation of their philosophy that they want. I can give that to them. I don't feel their religion or choice of expression of said religion is invalid. So I validate it in the best way I can. And I hope it helps them.

I work nights, and we tend to discuss many things. Religion is occasionlly discussed. I think everyone realizes that it is an intensely personal subject, and I've never run into problems during 3am discussions at the nurses station. People tend to appreciate honesty, a forthcoming attitude, an open mind, and respect for the views and feelings of others. I aspire to all of these attributes (aspire, not actually achieve, but I'm trying!). And I live smack in the middle of the Bible belt, in the state that is questioning evolution.

So, in short, no, it's not a problem!

Stitchie · Apr 4, 2006

I'm smack in the middle of this debate. I do the religious stuff that we're expected to do, but for me it's for my twins' grandparents; it isn't very meaningful for me.

What has helped me are the things that have always grounded me and given me hope when things seemed hopeless: a poem called the Desiderata (pm me for a copy; I have to look up the origins of this poem because it is beautiful. My faith in my marriage, my family, my friends. Those are my touchstones. I have chosen, knowingly, to live this life as if this is all we get, and our heaven or our hell is of our own doing (maybe Karma comes into play here?)

I admire and envy people who have such unwavering faith it gets them through anything. You have a gift that eludes me.

For me, while growing up in a chaotic, turbulent, alcoholic family, church was a punishment, even Catholic school was a punishment. I stopped seeing the point of punishing someone by sending them to church -- I was supposed to be forgiven there, but somehow never felt welcomed there.

Reality is my guide (at least I sure hope it is!). The life I've made for myself, the home my husband and I have created with much of our own ideas and two hands, for our children, the job I grow to love more each day (because I work with wonderful people of every background). My comfort, when life is stressing me out, is a horse, my cats (no, they don't play well together!) reading, music, and most especially, the laughter of my thriving, happy, smart, growing toddler twin girls -- it's been a year and a half since we've brought them home from Poland!

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Apr 4, 2006

It would have been better if I had isolated my gripes better. It is the fundamentalists that I have a great deal of trouble with. Fundamentalists of any religion. I would define a fundamentalist as one who sees his way as the only way. So a fundamentalist could be Christian, Muslim, or Jewish (plus a few others). I view them as toxic to society because they don't just practice their faith and live and let live. No. They impose their theology on others. They do this by voting rights away from others. They do this by taking evolution out of biology class. They do this by denying an unmarried couple in Mississippi a permit to move into the home they purchased because they passed a city ordinance prohibiting cohabitation. This was on CNN today. They do this by ignoring environmental concerns like pollution and global warming because "the end is near anyway, I read it in those Left Behind books." Direct quote from my relatives.

Anyway, my point is that in the US the fundamentalists have been quite successful in recent years. They don't hesitate to be vocal and organize. So I think the secular ought to notice and do the same.

My best friend is a Methodist. She believes that she has a relationship with Jesus. It is dear to her. At the same time, she recognizes that your religion is generally your geography. She believes there are many paths to god. She is the sweetest dearest person I know. I learn from her. So I am not allergic to religious people, no. Again, it's the fundamentalists that I find toxic.

Back to the intelligence/religiosity issue that has bothered some. There are quite different group IQ averages based upon self-disclosed religion. According to the data, fundamentalist Christians have an average IQ lower than the average Unitarian. Again, while this is interesting we can never make an assumption about an individual. Regarding IQ, my Southern Baptist mother clearly has a higher IQ than me (Unitarian). Individuals v. groups.

The increase in fundamentalist religions in the US has been attributed to fear and backlash against modernity. I think it is time for the secular and non-fundies to start speaking up, before we are a Christian theocracy.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Apr 4, 2006

Interesting stats on religion and intelligence:

http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligence%20&%20religion.htm

I'm off to study for exams this week. Thank you for the interesting conversation here.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Apr 4, 2006

What if the atheists are wrong? What if there really is a God, a heaven and a hell and those who do not believe in Jesus really do go to hell? If what the "religious fanatics" say is true, what will these people do then....if there really is no second chance except what we do and believe here on earth? Many people may say, "Well I dont want to believe in a God that would send good, moral people to hell."
And I do agree that everyone has a right to their own beliefs...just thought I would ask what if Christians were right?

What if the atheists are wrong and the Christians were right????

That begs the question of what is true faith, and what sort of "Faith" that G-d would accept.

Anyone could say, "Well, I believe in Jesus and G-d, because, well if it is true, I will go to heaven, and if I am wrong and there is no G-d, it will not make a difference".

Do you really think G-d sees that as true Faith of the heart????? Just saying that because it is the optimal course of action, but not really investing ones soul in that belief?

It is quite useless to say, well if you believe our way, you may win, but if you believe your way, there is no gain....so just believe our way. Because Faith does not work that way. You can no more "force" yourself to believe something merely because it may be beneficial to you.

I really get annoyed with this "It is better for you to believe X, because of this benefit to it" idea..as though Faith can be turned on and off like a faucet.

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I always flashback on the days after 9-11. The lovely "Christian" friends that "tolerated" my errant Judaism. But since the Apocalypse was suddenly upon us, I needed to change my ways NOW!!!!!!! so I would be "saved". All I could think was how weak their experience of true Faith was, that they thought that it was that easy.

leslie :-D · Apr 4, 2006

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Back to the intelligence/religiosity issue that has bothered some. There are quite different group IQ averages based upon self-disclosed religion. According to the data, fundamentalist Christians have an average IQ lower than the average Unitarian. Again, while this is interesting we can never make an assumption about an individual. Regarding IQ, my Southern Baptist mother clearly has a higher IQ than me (Unitarian). Individuals v. groups.

i'm confused. what point are you trying to make re: intelligence & religiosity? i'm trying to understand your intent and cannot. at best it is perceivably antagonistic.

i did read the links you provided: with the quantity of participants in these studies, it would be impossible to attain any conclusion. furthermore, i would be curious re: the demographics of those involved.

it also didn't surprise me that scientists were less inclined to be religious. scientists seek absolutes. religion is nothing close to absolute. similiarly, that's why it's called faith: to believe in something you can't see prove. overall, i was underimpressed with the data.

leslie

limabean · Apr 4, 2006

caroladybelle, I purposely never did say "If we are wrong and there is no God it will not make a difference" for the very reasons you stated. I do not believe there is a "faith faucet" that can be turned on and off, and I believe that God would not accept a belief in Him if we were only doing it for our own benefit. The questions I asked are just the basics of what many Christians believe the bible to say. I'm sorry if my statements came across differently.

allnurses Guide · Apr 4, 2006

I know, I know, you're never supposed to talk about religion or politics, right....
I'm really not trying to start a religious debate, but just get a sense of where people are at. I'm a first year student and an atheist, yet all my fellow students and the nurses I'm meeting are believers.
If and when I become an atheist nurse, am I going to find myself a fish out of water?

Yep, you did just ask a question about being a fish out of water.

Sometimes I get all these thread mixed up. :mad: I post on so many - and many are of a similar vein.

I still think in the beginning here people started to answer your question and then the ball started rolling, BY the posters themselves. Someone says something in their post and someone else responds to it.

I don't think you should regret this thread - it is good for people to hash things out and this thread has been mostly respectful and very interesting.

You did a good thing.

steph

tvccrn, ASN, RN · Apr 4, 2006

This discussion has been very informative. It has brought out many of the reasons that I couldn't continue to uphold my Southern Baptist upbringing. I have to commend everyone here on the ability to keep this fairly civil.

I have to say to the OP that as a pagan in a catholic hospital I have not felt the least bit uncomfortable in over 10 years here. I have had intelligent conversations with people of all religions and I have been cornered by zealots. When this happens I merely extracate myself with the least fuss and go about my merry way.

I was disillusioned early in my teens years as to the "religiousness" of the leaders on our church. This lead to many years of looking for something. I have met many people who are christian and don't push it on people and I have met those that cram it down your throat. It doesn't depend on the religion, it depends on the person. The point has been made that fundamentalists abound in ANY religion. I have certainly seen evidence of that.

The religion I follow is perfect for me. It explains to me the differing aspects of diety, it provides a reasoning for the dark side of humanity putting the blame squarely where it should rest (on the individual), and gives me something to look forward to after I leave this plane of existence. It works for me.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 4, 2006

Ugh. I'm sorry I posted this. But many of the posts answer my original question. "Quite possibly."

Don't regret posting your question. Sometimes threads take a life of their own and go off topic, that's just the nature of a bulletin board, and we have to read things we don't want to read.

I'm sure you realize that because you're a fish out of water in your class you're going to be a fish out of water out and about in the real world.

I don't know any stats, but read recently upwards of 90% of people believe in a high power. (Don't quote me on that)

It doesn't have to be an issue, and on a daily basis I don't think it's going to be. But you're right it just might "quote possibly" come up once in a blue moon.