Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

jeepgirl, LPN, NP · Mar 20, 2005

What was their source?

it's in the court docs and has been pretty much common knowledge. the lawyer for the family has been on TV and talked about this many times.

allnurses Guide · Mar 20, 2005

If the husband has behaved so horribly why have the courts not taken away his right to make medical decisions? If he had something to do with her condition why have the courts allowed him to remain in control of his wife's medical care? Obviously, there is not enough proof or the courts would have taken action.
.

Our court system is not without flaws, as wonderful as it is. Look at OJ. Or just take child molesters for instance. . . . . there is a thread I just came from regarding that little 9 year old girl who was kidnapped and murdered by a convicted child molester who lived nearby . .. and we are all asking WHY the courts/judges let these scum back into our neighborhoods.

steph

allnurses Guide · Mar 20, 2005

The spouse's decision should carry more weight than the wishes of Terri's parents. My opinion probably sounds cruel; however, the parents shouldn't interfere. Comatose people do not have quality lives. I've worked with them; it's quite depressing. I am doubtful she's ever coming back to the same sharp mental state.

She isn't in a coma.

The spouse should have decision making rights but only if he/she is telling the truth. Michael didn't say anything about Terri's making any statement about wishing NOT to be kept alive artificially until after the settlement and years after the event that put Terri where she is. (And if they did talk about it, did they specifically talk about feeding tubes? I know I didn't even consider that before this case when I had my conversation with my husband). He said during the court case that he would use the money to care for Terri for the rest of her life.

As a parent, I'm not sure why parents have to be completely out of the picture . . . Terri's parents are not intruding or infringing on any relationship between Michael and Terri . . Michael did that when he got a girlfriend and made two babies with her. Terri's parents are simply living out their religious belief as Catholics that life is precious and you don't kill people.

I'd have so much more respect for Michael if he just let her parents take care of her and got a divorce. Of course, I'd really respect him if he had kept true to his marriage vows.

steph

Kyriaka · Mar 21, 2005

The spouse's decision should carry more weight than the wishes of Terri's parents. My opinion probably sounds cruel; however, the parents shouldn't interfere. Comatose people do not have quality lives. I've worked with them; it's quite depressing. I am doubtful she's ever coming back to the same sharp mental state.

__________________

Whoa, here. Please be careful lumping everyone together. I am a former comatose patient. I have a quality life today. And truly I think my mind is sharper. I actually think in a differant way and my math abilities are greater.

Roland · Mar 21, 2005

Have any of you considered the possibility that Terri might be able to eat and drink without benefit of a tube? The parents have repeatedly requested that she be allowed a swallowing test (usually conducted by Speech Therapy), but the husband has refused to even allow this. If she is actually able to eat orally we really ARE starving her to death in a manner that almost no one would support. I would argue that the nurses (and Doctors) at Woodside Hospise should possibly lose their licenses to practice for participating in such a cruel act. Even if I supported euthanasia I wouldn't support it in such a slow and cruel manner. We are constantly taught in nursing school to recognize that even people who appear comatose may still feel pain and discomfort. Even if I believed that Terri was in a so called Persistant Vegitative State (which I don't) where is the reseach to demonstrate that those in persistant vegitative states do not also feel discomfort, thirst, and or hunger

Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:19 a.m. EST

Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally

A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would allow only a feeding tube.

Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified:

Story Continues Below

"At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag.

"[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely."

Law testified that the only reason she didn't attempt to feed Ms. Schiavo more frequently was "because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael."

Editorializing on the case in light of Law's account, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette said Sunday, "It is one thing to withdraw a feeding tube; another entirely to withhold that day's meal tray."

Carla Sauer Iyer was a registered nurse at the same facility. In her own affidavit Iyer testified that Ms. Schiavo was capable of speech, explaining, "[Terri] spoke on a regular basis, saying such things as 'Mommy' and 'help me.'"

When she put a washcloth in Terri's hands to keep her fingers from curling together, Iyer said, "Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy" that he had forbidden.

"Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death," the RN noted. "Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that ***** gonna die?'"

Editor's note:

LydiaNN · Mar 21, 2005

The spouse's decision should carry more weight than the wishes of Terri's parents. My opinion probably sounds cruel; however, the parents shouldn't interfere. Comatose people do not have quality lives. I've worked with them; it's quite depressing. I am doubtful she's ever coming back to the same sharp mental state.

Your opinion doesn't sound cruel, but it does sound like an opinion, not a fact. I don't doubt that she'll never be back to her former mental state. I don't even doubt that she has a poor quality of life. I do doubt that it is appropriate for us to support withdrawing food and water now that we have chosen to supply it, however. I also doubt that her spouse's decision should count for anything at all, since he is clearly a spouse in name only. Once he took up with another woman and started having kids with her, he abandoned his vows. I consider her parents motives much less suspect than his. Given their religious beliefs, their daughter's practice of the same religion, and the inability of her husband to provide any proof of his claim that she said she wouldn't want to be kept alive artificially, I don't see a way of justifying this decision. The judge made his ruling by applying the law as it is written. It is our right as citizens to challenge such laws, however. That is what Terri's parents are doing. Given the irreversibility of what will be the natural outcome of this judge's decision, I think it is very much incumbent upon politicians to get involved.

aileenve, ASN, RN · Mar 21, 2005

Why did'nt her parents petition the court to be her guardians after the husband has another woman and 2 children?? Also once the feeding tube was put in it should have been left alone, it is very sad... :sniff:

KarafromPhilly · Mar 21, 2005

____________
But you see, it is easier to view a person in this way.
If you ever saw the movie Awakenings, Robin Williams character tells another Dr., "how do you know there is no consciousness there"? Speaking of people who appear to be in a catatonic state.
And the Dr. replies, "because to think otherwise is the unthinkable".
Based on the true story of a research physician who uses an experimental drug to "awaken" the catatonic victims of a rare sleeping sickness.

x

Roland · Mar 21, 2005

Why did'nt her parents petition the court to be her guardians after the husband has another woman and 2 children?? Also once the feeding tube was put in it should have been left alone, it is very sad...

The parents did make such a petition alleging that Michael was an unfit guardian and it was summarily denied by Judge Greer. Judge Greer has made virtually every decision regarding the Terr's care. You might check out http://www.theempirejournal.com for more information on possible corruption involving Judge Greer and other involved officials.

Also you may wish to consider the account of an attorney who was with Mrs. Schiavo as her feeding tube was removed. She claims (and supposedly there is a recording which will be played on Drudge's radio show this evening to back up the claim) that Terri attempted to say "I want to Live", but could only get out "I Want.....".

Exclusive

ATTORNEY'S LAST VISIT WITH TERRI SCHIAVO

On Friday, March 18, less than an hour after Sixth Circuit Court Judge George W. Greer defied subpoenas issued by a Congressional committee for Terri Schindler-Schiavo to appear as a federal witness in a Congressional investigation, attorneys for Terri's parents, Mary and Bob Schindler, visited Terri to tell her that the death order was going to be executed and that she would die.

When asked by her parents and their attorneys if she wanted to live, Terri Schiavo made two conscious attempts to say "Yeah" and began to cry when told that her husband, Michael Schiavo, would be removing her feeding tube on orders of Judge Greer, which would result in her death by starvation.

The Empire Journal has obtained an exclusive, first hand last visit narrative by Barbara Weller who with David Gibbs III of the Gibbs Law Firm of Seminole, Fl., is representing the Schindler family in their efforts to save Terri's life.

Last Visit Narrative

by Attorney Barbara Weller

When Terri Schiavo's feeding tube was removed at 1:45 p.m. on March 18, 2005, I was one of the most surprised people on the planet. I had been visiting Terri throughout the morning with her family and her priest. As part of the legal team working throughout the previous days and nights to save Terri from a horrific fate, I was very hopeful. Although the state judicial system had obviously failed Terri by not protecting her life, I knew other forces were still at work. I fully expected the federal courts would step in to reverse this injustice, just as they might for a prisoner unjustly set for execution--although by much more humane means than Terri would be executed. Barring that, I was certain that sometime around noon, the Florida Department of Children and Family Services would come to the Woodside Hospice facility in Pinellas Park and take Terri into protective custody. Or that federal marshals would arrive from Washington D.C, where the Congress was working furiously to try to save Terri, and would stand guard at her door to prevent any medical personnel from entering her room to remove the tube that was providing her nutrition and hydration.

Finally, I was sure if nothing else was working, that at 12:59,just before the hour scheduled for Terri's gruesome execution to begin, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush would at least issue a 60-day reprieve for the legislative bodies to complete the work they were attempting to do to save Terri's life and to make sure that no other vulnerable adults could be sentenced to starve to death in America. I had done the legal research weeks before and was fully convinced that Gov. Bush had the power, under our co-equal branches of government, to issue a reprieve in the face of a judicial death sentence intended to lead to the starvation and dehydration of an innocent woman when scores of doctors and neurologists were saying she could be helped.

All morning long, as I was in the room with Terri and her family, we were telling her that help was on the way. Terri was in good spirits that morning. The mood in her room was jovial, particularly around noontime, as we knew Congressional attorneys were on the scene and many were working hard to save Terri's life. For most of that time, I was visiting and talking with Terri along with Terri's sister Suzanne Vitadamo, Suzanne's husband, and Terri's aunt, who was visiting from New York to help provide support for the family. A female Pinellas Park police office was stationed at the door outside Terri's room.

Terri was sitting up in her lounge chair, dressed and looking alert and well. Her feeding tube had been plugged in around 11 a.m. and we all felt good that she was still being fed. Suzanne and I were talking, joking, and laughing with Terri, telling her she was going to go to Washington D.C. to testify before Congress, which meant that finally Terri's husband Michael would be required to fix her wheelchair. After that Suzanne could take Terri to the mall shopping and could wheel her outdoors every day to feel the wind and sunshine on her face, something she has not been able to do for more than five years.

At one point, I noticed Terri's window blinds were pulled down. I went to the window to raise them so Terri could look at the beautiful garden outside her window and see the sun after several days of rain. As sunlight came into the room, Terri's eyes widened and she was obviously very pleased. At another point, Suzanne and I told Terri she needed to suck in all the food she could because she might not be getting anything for a few days. During that time, Mary Schindler, Terri's mother, joined us for a bit, and we noticed there were bubbles in Terri's feeding tube. We joked that we didn't want her to begin burping, and called the nurses to fix the feeding tube, which they did. Terri's mother did not come back into the room. This was a very difficult day for Bob and Mary Schindler. I suspect they were less hopeful all along than I was, having lived through Terri's last two feeding tube removals.

Suzanne and I continued to talk and joke with Terri for probably an hour or more. At one point Suzanne called Terri the bionic woman and I heard Terri laugh out loud heartily for the first time since I have been visiting with her. She laughed so hard that for the first time I noticed the dimples in her cheeks.

The most dramatic event of this visit happened at one point when I was sitting on Terri's bed next to Suzanne. Terri was sitting in her lounge chair and her aunt was standing at the foot of the chair. I stood up and learned over Terri. I took her arms in both of my hands. I said to her, "Terri if you could only say 'I want to live' this whole thing could be over today." I begged her to try very hard to say, "I want to live." To my enormous shock and surprise, Terri's eyes opened wide, she looked me square in the face, and with a look of great concentration, she said, "Ahhhhhhh." Then, seeming to summon up all the strength she had, she virtually screamed, "Waaaaaaaa." She yelled so loudly that Michael Vitadamo, Suzanne's husband, and the female police officer who were then standing together outside Terri's door, clearly heard her. At that point, Terri had a look of anguish on her face that I had never seen before and she seemed to be struggling hard, but was unable to complete the sentence. She became very frustrated and began to cry. I was horrified that I was obviously causing Terri so much anguish. Suzanne and I began to stroke Terri's face and hair to comfort her. I told Terri I was very sorry. It had not been my intention to upset her so much. Suzanne and I assured Terri that her efforts were much appreciated and that she did not need to try to say anything more. I promised Terri I would tell the world that she had tried to say, "I want to live."

Suzanne and I continued to visit and talk with Terri, along with other family members who came and went in the room, until about 2:00 p.m. when we were all told to leave after Judge Greer denied yet another motion for stay and ordered the removal of the feeding tube to proceed. As we left the room, the female police officer outside the door was valiantly attempting to keep from crying.

Just as Terri's husband Michael has told the world he must keep an alleged promise to kill Terri, a promise remembered a million dollars and nearly a decade after the fact; I must keep my promise to Terri immediately. Time is running out for her. I went out to the banks of cameras outside the hospice facility and told the story immediately. Now I must also tell the story in writing for the world to hear. It may be the last effective thing I can do to try to keep Terri alive so she can get the testing, therapy, and rehabilitative help she so desperately needs before it is too late.

About four in the afternoon, several hours after the feeding tube was removed, I returned to Terri's room. By that time she was alone except for a male police officer now standing inside the door. When I entered the room and began to speak to her, Terri started to cry and tried to speak to me immediately. It was one of the most helpless feelings I have ever had. Terri was looking very melancholy at that point and I had the sense she was very upset that we had told her things were going to get better, but instead, they were obviously getting worse. I had previously had the same feeling when my own daughter was a baby who was hospitalized and was crying and looking to me to rescue her from her hospital crib, something I could not do. While I was in the room with Terri for the next half hour or so, several other friends came to visit and I did a few press interviews sitting right next to Terri. I again raised her window shade, which had again been pulled down, so Terri could at least see the garden and the sunshine from her lounge chair. I also turned the radio on in her room before I left so that when she was alone, she would at least have some music for comfort.

Just before I left the room, I leaned over Terri and spoke right into her ear. I told her I was very sorry I had not been able to stop the feeding tube from being taken out and I was very sorry I had to leave her alone. But I reminded her that Jesus would stay right by her side even when no one else was there with her. When I mentioned Jesus' Name, Terri again laughed out loud. She became very agitated and began loudly trying to speak to me again. As Terri continued to laugh and try to speak, I quietly prayed in her ear, kissed her, placed her in Jesus' care, and left the room.

Terri is alone now. As I write this last visit narrative, it is five in the morning of March 19. Terri has been without food and water for nearly 17 hours. I'm sure she is beginning at least become thirsty, if not hungry. And I am left to wonder how many other people care.

danu3 · Mar 21, 2005

The following quote really really bug me about the Larry King interview (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/18/lkl.01.html).

M. SCHIAVO: I won't give it up. Terri is my life. I'm going to carry out her wishes to the very end. This is what she wanted. It's not about the Schindlers, it's not about me, not about Congress, it's about Terri.

How can he say Terri is his life when within 3 years after the incident, he is with another woman?

-Dan

allnurses Guide · Mar 21, 2005

The following quote really really bug me about the Larry King interview (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/18/lkl.01.html).
M. SCHIAVO: I won't give it up. Terri is my life. I'm going to carry out her wishes to the very end. This is what she wanted. It's not about the Schindlers, it's not about me, not about Congress, it's about Terri.
How can he say Terri is his life when within 3 years after the incident, he is with another woman?
-Dan

I agree with you.

Can't anyone see that this is not a comatose woman terminally ill?

The article by Barbara Weller is heartbreaking.

I'm just sick to my stomach. How did we become such barbarians?

steph

Chad_KY_SRNA · Mar 21, 2005

I don't want to sound inhumane but I can't imagine sitting there for years watching the person I love stuck in a vegatative state. I can imagine that he would want to move on with his life. He was a young person who had planned on having a long married life and a family but instead he got to spend every moment that he wasn't working or asleep in a nursing facility with his wife who has no hope of any meaningful recovery. Never having been in that situation I can't begin to understand the frustration and grief he must have went through. I would try to move on with my life after a point. Its been 15 years the mother and father need a reality check if they could ever get her home they would have to do 24 hour care. I saw an interview with Michael on CNN he said that they had attempted Physical and Speech therapy with Terri and she didn't respond. He also talked about some kind of stimulator that was expirimental that they had tried. Sounds to me like they have exhausted their options This sucks! Poor Terri. :angryfire :crying2: I wish there was a clear answer but you get into these ethics, religeon, and law debates. God be with this mess is all I can say.