I had an arguement with one of my nurse practicioners yesterday. Irregardless of how any of us feel about immigrants, legal or illegal, it's very frustrating to have to treat a patient when you or no one around speaks thier language. I've encountered it many times, and most of you have as well.
As a military brat, I encountered other cultures that told me that in thier nation, they were required to take other language classes in school, from primary and certainly be fluent in at least one other than thier mother tounge to have a university degree. I sometimes think that we should require nurses to learn at least one other language. My practicioner got HOT and tells me I am nuts. That other industrialized nations do not require citizens to learn a second language in school. Back it up.
Can any of you help me with where to find data to back up my arguement?
While in Germany with the military, we had landlords who told us that their child had studied mandatory English since their equivilent of the second grade. My daughter started learning German from her babysitter. In the ten years I spent in Germany, I noticed that Germans always were receptive to my attempts to communicate in German. Recently when hospitalized, I had the privilege of meeting a couple who were originally from Europe. The husband told me a joke that goes around about Americans not being able to handle languages other than English. I was not offended. I agree that learning a different language is part of being an educated world citizen. However, I also agree that anyone who comes to the US for great lengths of time or permanently, should attempt to learn English. If for no other reason, so that they can attempt to be minimally understood in a medical situation where there is no time for finding a translator. I also worked in a facility with many monolingual people where we did not have translators available for all of the languages. Stating that this added to an already difficult situation, was putting it mildly. In some instances, some of these people had been in the US for decades with no efforts in English, dementia patients taken into account. Sad situation.
I think it's great that a second language is required for a university degree, but I have a problem with us having to learn a second language (namely Spanish) to accommodate them. And before anyone jumps on me for being biased, I am among the most unbiased people around. No other country caters to people who do not speak that country's language.
I need to leave this thread.
Yes, perhaps leaving the thread is a good idea. If your unbiased opinion and the opinoins of others aggravates to so. :)
I'm sorry that you took my advocacy for including a foreign language requirement in our children's education to mean it was for accommodating and "catering" to immigrants who don't speak English. I didn't say that. I actually went off topic to say it would be nice to raise bilingual children, the way much of the world does.
To answer the op's question. Of course English speaking nurses shouldn't be required to be bilingual.
There are periodic newspaper articles about how the U.S. government has problems finding qualified people due to a lack of foreign language skills in America. However, when you read the articles, the government is not looking for people who speak the more common languages. They are looking for people fluent in uncommon languages.
My foreign language training is limited to two years of high school Latin, since the college where I earned my B.A. in Biology did not have a foreign language requirement. For those of you who have completed two years of a foreign language in college, are you able to communicate with the native speakers of this language?
The problems with learning a foreign language are rarely addressed:
1. Unlike English, many foreign languages have dialects. The German the Amish speak is not the same as the language spoken in Germany. This limits your ability to communicate to those who speak the same dialect.
2. Which language? In my area we have Amish and Hispanics. However, Quebec is not all that far away. So we are already up to three foreign languages, and have not yet counted the Indian and Asian immigrants, let alone the international students.
3. What are you willing to give up in order to learn another language? Americans are already known for their work ethic. The best and the brightest from other countries flock to American colleges due to the quality of our education. Asking people to work even harder is not realistic. I enjoyed playing in the band when I was going to college full-time. It would have been a bitter loss if I had had to spend that time learning a language, instead.
My suggestion is that medical terminology be offered as a substitute for a foreign language at both the high school and college levels. Learning this last Fall has opened up a whole new world to me (I am not a healthcare worker). And while I think that everyone needs to know medical terminology in order to understand healthcare, I also realize that not everyone can spend the 2-3 hours each day it took to master the subject.
Bottom line - if you don't use it, you lose it. I can speak a bit of Spanish, but it's terrible, and I can't conjugate verbs very well anymore, even if I *can* remember them. I think that's important - you can teach a person Spanish for 10 years, but if they don't use it, they will lose it.
Nothing special - where I come from, most people speak at least 3 (and I'm talking languages... not dialects).
Do I think being bilingual is nice? Certainly. One of my most memorable experiences during community nursing was trying to converse with a Turkish refugee at a refugee shelter in downtown Buffalo. He didn't speak English and I didn't speak Turkish - but we both managed to get by with broken German with bits of Urdu thrown in.
Do I think it should be a "requirement". I don't think so. Heck, we don't even have "understanding medical terminology" (mostly Latin) as a compulsory part of our training and education.
I am of the opinion that those who feel it would enhance their health care careers or day to day jobs would seek remedy through taking a part time language course or some such. Forcing people over this issue is pointless - knowledge (especially something as nuanced and delicate as a language) can't be "crammed" into an unwilling brain.
I like the idea of encouraging children to be raised with more than one language. Languages are easier to learn as a child.
I for one really want to do basic sign language (in addition to Spanish). Once I settle down with my new job, I fully intend on persuing both :)
Roy- Sign language is easy to learn! I taught my girl scout troop how to sign and we sold cookies at the mall they did great with the deaf customers (who I was very surprised were many!). My daughters' sitter when they were young was deaf- used to joke that she was the only one willing to deal with them! Truth was- she was great with the kids and her girls were the same ages and they got along very well. She taught them signing and they still can "talk" fluently!
I don't think being forced to learn a language is necessary. I also don't think having English being the only language in the world is very practical as one poster said. Why should people go against their heritage for the convenience of some?
Knowing another language is nice becauase communication is a big part of life and the world. It can open many doors. I wish I could speak more French than I can and that I listened more at family gatherings when I was a kid.
All said- I am considering learning medical spanish as well as French (many french speaking here in Northern New Hampshire as well as many vacationers from Canada year round). It can only enhance my learning and opportunities.
1. Unlike English, many foreign languages have dialects. The German the Amish speak is not the same as the language spoken in Germany. This limits your ability to communicate to those who speak the same dialect.
I have to respectfully disagree with you on that.
Have you ever had a person speaking British English ask you for a rubber? If yes, what did you give them?
Hopefully, you gave them an eraser. Just one example of many.
Ok, maybe it's not a dialect per se, but England English and USA English are VERY different, even if the grammar is the same (the spelling is not).
I think it should be a requirement for anyone getting a bachelors degree to learn a foreign language of their choosing. It doesn't have to be Spanish. I think in this regard (education) Americans are very egocentric. I was watching Jay Leno and they asked Americans who the first 4 presidents of the United States were, and very few knew people knew 1 or 2, and there wasn't one person who knew them all. Then they asked Chinese students and they knew the American Presidents!
Most schools around the world teach their students at least one modern language, and most learn English when in secondary school. I think Mandarin should be taught more (especially for those pursuing an MBA) as China is growing very large economically. We will not always be the superpower, and it is essential that we learn to incorporate other countries into our education.
This is not a national society it is a global one! People travel, and as I travel to Europe, as a tourist, I am not expected to know all the European languages but it is comforting that they incorporate English into their education. Just my . I know my thought is not considered part of the majority on this thread, but I respect everyone's opinion.
PS I am also a military brat and I was in the military. I lived in Germany for 4 years. I do not know any German. I will be taking French though!
1. Unlike English, many foreign languages have dialects. The German the Amish speak is not the same as the language spoken in Germany. This limits your ability to communicate to those who speak the same dialect.
I have to respectfully disagree with you on that.
Have you ever had a person speaking British English ask you for a rubber? If yes, what did you give them?
Hopefully, you gave them an eraser. Just one example of many.
Ok, maybe it's not a dialect per se, but England English and USA English are VERY different, even if the grammar is the same (the spelling is not).
Even so you are still able to communicate on a basic level. If you did hand the person a condom they would look at you like you were crazy and then the person would show you what he meant. Most of the time when that happens though the context of the situation helps you understand what the person is saying... the context and the fact that you understand the rest of what the person is saying.
Even so you are still able to communicate on a basic level. If you did hand the person a condom they would look at you like you were crazy and then the person would show you what he meant. Most of the time when that happens though the context of the situation helps you understand what the person is saying... the context and the fact that you understand the rest of what the person is saying.
I understand what you are saying, I was just trying to make a point. English has many forms and yes, you can usually figure out what someone is saying. The same is true for Spanish, and I imagine for any number of other languages. I speak Mexican Spanish but get along just fine with someone from the Dominican Republic or Argentina or wherever, although the accents and vocabulary are vastly different.
The post I was quoting sounded to me like English is the only language that has no variants, which it does.
1. Unlike English, many foreign languages have dialects. The German the Amish speak is not the same as the language spoken in Germany. This limits your ability to communicate to those who speak the same dialect.
I have to respectfully disagree with you on that.
Have you ever had a person speaking British English ask you for a rubber? If yes, what did you give them?
Hopefully, you gave them an eraser. Just one example of many.
Ok, maybe it's not a dialect per se, but England English and USA English are VERY different, even if the grammar is the same (the spelling is not).
As I was reading your comments, I was thinking "I know she does not mean a condom, maybe a rubber is a pair of those things you put on in the winter to keep your feet dry?" So I probably would have asked "What size?", which would have made for an interesting conversation in front of other Americans;)
I remember hearing a British woman on television talking about how she had won a muffler in America. She was expecting one of those scarf things people wear around their necks in winter. Instead, she got a silencer (The part of an engine's exhaust system that reduces the noise).
yeah I speak english and french. What's the big deal. It's normal for people who do not live in the US to know more than one language. Why does this idea bring out so much hostility.
. I know my thought is not considered part of the majority on this thread, but I respect everyone's opinion.
caliotter3
38,333 Posts
While in Germany with the military, we had landlords who told us that their child had studied mandatory English since their equivilent of the second grade. My daughter started learning German from her babysitter. In the ten years I spent in Germany, I noticed that Germans always were receptive to my attempts to communicate in German. Recently when hospitalized, I had the privilege of meeting a couple who were originally from Europe. The husband told me a joke that goes around about Americans not being able to handle languages other than English. I was not offended. I agree that learning a different language is part of being an educated world citizen. However, I also agree that anyone who comes to the US for great lengths of time or permanently, should attempt to learn English. If for no other reason, so that they can attempt to be minimally understood in a medical situation where there is no time for finding a translator. I also worked in a facility with many monolingual people where we did not have translators available for all of the languages. Stating that this added to an already difficult situation, was putting it mildly. In some instances, some of these people had been in the US for decades with no efforts in English, dementia patients taken into account. Sad situation.