Are nurses in other nations bilingual? Should US be?

[**nurse**]

I had an arguement with one of my nurse practicioners yesterday. Irregardless of how any of us feel about immigrants, legal or illegal, it's very frustrating to have to treat a patient when you or no one around speaks thier language. I've encountered it many times, and most of you have as well.

As a military brat, I encountered other cultures that told me that in thier nation, they were required to take other language classes in school, from primary and certainly be fluent in at least one other than thier mother tounge to have a university degree. I sometimes think that we should require nurses to learn at least one other language. My practicioner got HOT and tells me I am nuts. That other industrialized nations do not require citizens to learn a second language in school. Back it up.

Can any of you help me with where to find data to back up my arguement?

[EricJRN, MSN, RN]

It is simply unrealistic to think you can pull up stakes in your homeland, for whatever reason, travel to a land with more resources and opportunities and expect them to bend over backward to accommodate you.

Is it unrealistic? Or is it the current reality?

[LydiaNN]

Haha ok. Well that is your opinion and mine is different. I agree it should be an equal responsibiltiy and that they should learn english once they get here. If I am willing to take time to learn spanish they should respect us and do the same. (At least learn basics.)

Sorry, but we're not agreeing that it should be a shared responsibility. IMHO, it should be their responsibility only, not mine. I've got enough to worry about, thank you, I don't feel it necessary to take on learning the language of every immigrant that crosses my path (and I live in San Diego, so if that was my philosophy, I'd have to learn a number of different languages, not just Spanish).

[Pumpkin1621]

Sorry, but we're not agreeing that it should be a shared responsibility. IMHO, it should be their responsibility only, not mine. I've got enough to worry about, thank you, I don't feel it necessary to take on learning the language of every immigrant that crosses my path (and I live in San Diego, so if that was my philosophy, I'd have to learn a number of different languages, not just Spanish).

Yeah I know your stance. I just mistyped. However, the question of the OP was not do you think everyone should be forced to learn an immigrants language. The question was should it be part of the nursing curriculum to learn another language. Our degree already requires a specific amount of humanities and I think that 6 credits of them should be languages.

[LydiaNN]

Is it unrealistic? Or is it the current reality?

Yes, it is unrealistic. The current reality is that there are people who expect to be accommodated, which is their business, but they can just take the time and trouble to find someone to translate for them. There is no reason to expect me to master a language that I couldn't even master when I was young. I realize this is an inconvenience for people who don't speak English, but again, if you want to make a new life for yourself, then you should certainly expect some hardships. I promise here and now that if I ever decide to resettle in Mexico, I will not do so with the attitude that they should be so happy to have me in their presence that they learn English just to make me feel at home.

[EricJRN, MSN, RN]

Where I live, the reality is that people (not all people, but enough) do bend over backward to help those in the situation you described. My point is that it's not unrealistic for a new immigrant to expect the same, because it is occurring here every day already.

I'm one of the people with the skills necessary (language-wise) to help non-English speakers, so you guys can be mad at me if you like. I don't do it out of a desire to perpetuate a cycle of illegal immigration, but I do it mainly because I already have the skills and it adds to my value as an employee.

[TazziRN, RN]

I don't think they EXPECT us to be able to communicate with them, but I'm sure that they think it would be nice. In fact the few people that I know that don't speak English wish they did, not the other way around.

And this is where you are so horribly wrong. I have been a nurse for 19 years. I have lost track of how many Spanish-speaking pts have gotten upset at me for not speaking Spanish. They not only expect us to speak Spanish, they get downright mad when we don't. I have had people from other countries come into the ER and they bring their own interpreters: Chinese, East Indian, Italian, Saudi.....none of them expect us to know their language.

Korean was my first language. My mom, nanny, brother, and I spoke Korean all day until my dad came home, then switched to English. When I started school my first-grade teacher sent a note home that my English was poor. My mom.....from Korea and speaking broken English herself.....said "No more Korean in the house, she has to learn English for living in the States."

[Pumpkin1621]

And this is where you are so horribly wrong. I have been a nurse for 19 years. I have lost track of how many Spanish-speaking pts have gotten upset at me for not speaking Spanish. They not only expect us to speak Spanish, they get downright mad when we don't. I have had people from other countries come into the ER and they bring their own interpreters: Chinese, East Indian, Italian, Saudi.....none of them expect us to know their language.

Korean was my first language. My mom, nanny, brother, and I spoke Korean all day until my dad came home, then switched to English. When I started school my first-grade teacher sent a note home that my English was poor. My mom.....from Korea and speaking broken English herself.....said "No more Korean in the house, she has to learn English for living in the States."

Is it b/c they expect you to know it or b/c they are hurt/have family that is hurting and they are frustrated at the communication barrier. You can't really say what that person is feeling if you cannot even communicate with them. But if I read your post correctly you are saying that only Spanish people feel this way. That is a little prejudice don't you think? Maybe some do feel this way, and I'm not saying that there aren't any that do, but they are not the majority.

[TazziRN, RN]

Because they expect us to know. We have interpreters available at all times, so I can communicate with them. I have seen satisfaction surveys come back complaining that the staff didn't speak Spanish, that we should all know Spanish. And no, it's not prejudiced because only the Spanish-speakers do feel this way. Did you not read the sentence that said people who speak only other languages bring their interpreters with them?

[Pumpkin1621]

Because they expect us to know. We have interpreters available at all times, so I can communicate with them. I have seen satisfaction surveys come back complaining that the staff didn't speak Spanish, that we should all know Spanish. And no, it's not prejudiced because only the Spanish-speakers do feel this way. Did you not read the sentence that said people who speak only other languages bring their interpreters with them?

Yeah. That sentence is the one that I am basing my statement off of. I don't think that you can make such a claim unless you work there all the time and see everyone that speaks every language. Maybe on days you were off people of other races made similar complaints. As I said previously I know people that speak spanish and don't speak English and they don't Expect anyone to learn Spanish to communicate with them. So we are both experiencing different things it seems.

Also, to say that only Spanish speaking people expect Americans to learn their language is a racist statement, and you cannot base that on your experience alone. I know Mexicans that came here and did learn English, and that hardly fits your profile. What you should say is that the particular ones you have met are like that, not all of them are like that. That is the same as racial profiling. ex. 90 percent of the people in Jail A are black therefore all black people are criminals.

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

And?

I wasn't the one comparing systems between the two countries. You were.

I think if anyone is in this country they should have the right to be treated if they are ill. Just like I would expect to be treated if I were in another country.

A. Health care isn't a "right". It isn't a "privilege" either.

B. I'm not talking third world nations. Try going to Germany or France and demand that the locals learn English so that they can take care of you.

I don't think they EXPECT us to be able to communicate with them, but I'm sure that they think it would be nice.

I used the word "expect" for a reason. It is because, they DO expect us to know, understand and accommodate. This whole thing would not ever be an issue if people didn't "expect" such services.

As I said before our ancestors didn't do that. They came here and didn't give a crap that they couldn't speak the native tongue. That isn't how things work anyway. People don't ever say oh lets be nice to our neighbors and incorporate their language into our society, usually official languages are added b/c there is a need for it. Forgive me but your post does make you sound resistive. As I said earlier this is a global society and we need to start looking beyond our picket fences.

This isn't about "picket fences" but about what's feasible and what's rational. Have you ever heard of UK docs/nurses being "expected" to learn Punjabi/Hindi/Urdu? Do our Canadian colleagues learn Tamil and Sinhalese as part of their "routine education"? Or German docs/nurses learning to speak Polish/Turkish?

Is that even an issue in those nations?

Like I said in my first post in this thread -

Do I think it should be a "requirement". I don't think so. Heck, we don't even have "understanding medical terminology" (mostly Latin) as a compulsory part of our training and education.

I am of the opinion that those who feel it would enhance their health care careers or day to day jobs would seek remedy through taking a part time language course or some such. Forcing people over this issue is pointless

I'm one of the people with the skills necessary (language-wise) to help non-English speakers, so you guys can be mad at me if you like. I don't do it out of a desire to perpetuate a cycle of illegal immigration, but I do it mainly because I already have the skills and it adds to my value as an employee.

Hi Eric.

I don't think "Nurses learning a different language to help immigrants" is a bad thing.

What I think many people have difficulty with, is being forced to accommodate as such (by being forced to take a linguistic class etc. as part of routine education).

Like I mentioned in an earlier post - I speak/understand 7 languages. And I totally, completely agree with you when you say:

I do it mainly because I already have the skills and it adds to my value as an employee.

IMHO, that is an attitude that ought to be encouraged.

But not forced or coerced.

There is a world of difference between the two PoVs.

My final in this contentious thread.

cheers,

Roy

[Pumpkin1621]

I wasn't the one comparing systems between the two countries. You were.

Yeah I still don't get what you were trying to say.

A. Health care isn't a "right". It isn't a "privilege" either.

B. I'm not talking third world nations. Try going to Germany or France and demand that the locals learn English so that they can take care of you.

Maybe you didn't read my post earlier. I lived in Germany for 4 years, and I don't speak German. I never had a problem finding someone who spoke English.

I used the word "expect" for a reason. It is because, they DO expect us to know, understand and accommodate. This whole thing would not ever be an issue if people didn't "expect" such services.

All this time I thought it was so we could communicate. Silly me.

This isn't about "picket fences" but about what's feasible and what's rational. Have you ever heard of UK docs/nurses being "expected" to learn Punjabi/Hindi/Urdu? Do our Canadian colleagues learn Tamil and Sinhalese as part of their "routine education"? Or German docs/nurses learning to speak Polish/Turkish?

Are any of those races a majority in the chosen nation? No now you are just being silly. In Canada French is spoken often but not everyone knows French. However I am sure if you moved to the East you would be expected to know some French.

Is that even an issue in those nations?

Yes. How many countries start teaching their children English early so that they can speak to the incoming tourists? I'll answer that for you. A lot.

What I think many people have difficulty with, is being forced to accommodate as such (by being forced to take a linguistic class etc. as part of routine education).

Right now it is required at some schools (I think all should require it), and knowledge in at least one language has been considered trait of a well rounded education.

I have family that have come here legally and I find it offensive that you all have this take on Mexicans. This "Expectation" you think they have to speak their language.

[TazziRN, RN]

Pumpkin, where do you nurse? I live in an ag county in California. I can say, with 100% confidence, that the people in this county who get upset that we don't speak their language are ALL Spanish-speakers. I never said it's like that everywhere, I said what I did to point out that your experience is not the same as everyone else's. I never said all Spanish-speakers have this attitude, I said that all the people with this attitude are Spanish-speakers. Big difference, using your analogy about blacks being criminals.