Are nurses in other nations bilingual? Should US be?

[**nurse**]

I had an arguement with one of my nurse practicioners yesterday. Irregardless of how any of us feel about immigrants, legal or illegal, it's very frustrating to have to treat a patient when you or no one around speaks thier language. I've encountered it many times, and most of you have as well.

As a military brat, I encountered other cultures that told me that in thier nation, they were required to take other language classes in school, from primary and certainly be fluent in at least one other than thier mother tounge to have a university degree. I sometimes think that we should require nurses to learn at least one other language. My practicioner got HOT and tells me I am nuts. That other industrialized nations do not require citizens to learn a second language in school. Back it up.

Can any of you help me with where to find data to back up my arguement?

[adrienurse, LPN]

I'm first generation english speaking on my dad's side (he grew up speaking french), My mom's parents grew up speaking Slovak and French. They learned english as a means of functioning in society. My cousins grew up isolated from the english language which I think did them a great disservice.

[rn/writer, RN]

yeah I speak english and french. What's the big deal. It's normal for people who do not live in the US to know more than one language. Why does this idea bring out so much hostility.

It isn't the idea of being fluent in another tongue that brings out the hostility on this subject. In fact, many of us have said that learning another language is a wonderful, mind-stretching, world-enlarging thing to do. When it's done by choice.

What creates animosity is the thought of being required to learn another language in our own country to accommodate people who came here (often illegally) unprepared to communicate. What rankles is that if we went anywhere else in the world, the burden would be on us to fit in, yet here at home, we are more and more being pressed into providing translation services (at no small expense) that no one else in the world has to offer.

I'm all for accommodation. To a point. I am not for enabling and capitulation to the extent that in some cities, you need a translator for English. There ought to be at least as much attention paid to the long-term goal of learning English as there is to the short-term solution of providing translation.

[miko014]

If you're coming to visit, great! Welcome! Do the best you can and then go home! If you're coming to stay, learn English!

It's not that I'm against learning a second (or third, or whatever) language at all! I've taken Spanish and ASL myself. It's exactly what rn/writer said - I don't like when people get frustrated with me because I can't understand them and vice versa - I'm sorry, but I don't speak Somali (just an example), and YOU'RE the one who came HERE!! If anything, you should be upset with yourself that you didn't learn English! It wouldn't be so sensitive of a topic if it hadn't happened so many times!

[Seemoni]

If you're coming to visit, great! Welcome! Do the best you can and then go home! If you're coming to stay, learn English!

It's not that I'm against learning a second (or third, or whatever) language at all! I've taken Spanish and ASL myself. It's exactly what rn/writer said - I don't like when people get frustrated with me because I can't understand them and vice versa - I'm sorry, but I don't speak Somali (just an example), and YOU'RE the one who came HERE!! If anything, you should be upset with yourself that you didn't learn English! It wouldn't be so sensitive of a topic if it hadn't happened so many times!

I think that maybe a few of you who demand that foreigners learn English if they live here in the US are overlooking quite a simple fact: Learning a second language, especially in adulthood, is very difficult. It's not just a matter of taking a couple classes before you come here, or enrolling in ESOL once you get here. You're lucky if your English classes in another country teach you anything more than just how to say "the book is on the table". It takes time, and I don't mean a few months, I mean a few years, to learn a new language. Not to mention that when you're sick, and feeling ill, and scared, you tend to revert to the comfort you know in your own language.

I mean imagine being in another country, whether as a new immigrant, or even just a visitor and falling ill. How on earth do you communicate to someone your medical history. Medical terms are ridiculously difficult for the common American, I mean "Smile oh Mighty Jesus" (a.k.a. Spinal Meningitis)?

I don't believe that we as nurses HAVE to learn a second language to accommodate our patients. But we really should try and understand the difficulty some of our patients might find themselves in. I mean do you seriously think they like living in a small bubble that doesn't allow them to communicate with the world around them. They're scared, and with people huffing and rolling their eyes at them at their feeble attempts I can't blame them for not wanting to look stupid by trying.

Anyhow, that's all I have to say about that.

[LydiaNN]

I think that maybe a few of you who demand that foreigners learn English if they live here in the US are overlooking quite a simple fact: Learning a second language, especially in adulthood, is very difficult. It's not just a matter of taking a couple classes before you come here, or enrolling in ESOL once you get here. You're lucky if your English classes in another country teach you anything more than just how to say "the book is on the table". It takes time, and I don't mean a few months, I mean a few years, to learn a new language. Not to mention that when you're sick, and feeling ill, and scared, you tend to revert to the comfort you know in your own language.

I mean imagine being in another country, whether as a new immigrant, or even just a visitor and falling ill. How on earth do you communicate to someone your medical history. Medical terms are ridiculously difficult for the common American, I mean "Smile oh Mighty Jesus" (a.k.a. Spinal Meningitis)?

I don't believe that we as nurses HAVE to learn a second language to accommodate our patients. But we really should try and understand the difficulty some of our patients might find themselves in. I mean do you seriously think they like living in a small bubble that doesn't allow them to communicate with the world around them. They're scared, and with people huffing and rolling their eyes at them at their feeble attempts I can't blame them for not wanting to look stupid by trying.

Anyhow, that's all I have to say about that.

How could you believe that we're overlooking the fact that learning a second language as an adult is difficult??? That is precisely what keeps most of us from doing so! It isn't any easier for us than it is for the people who have moved here. The bottom line is that if you want to live here, the onus should be on you to make the difficult transition, not to expect someone else to do so just to accommodate you. Period.

[Pumpkin1621]

It isn't the idea of being fluent in another tongue that brings out the hostility on this subject. In fact, many of us have said that learning another language is a wonderful, mind-stretching, world-enlarging thing to do. When it's done by choice.

What creates animosity is the thought of being required to learn another language in our own country to accommodate people who came here (often illegally) unprepared to communicate. What rankles is that if we went anywhere else in the world, the burden would be on us to fit in, yet here at home, we are more and more being pressed into providing translation services (at no small expense) that no one else in the world has to offer.

I'm all for accommodation. To a point. I am not for enabling and capitulation to the extent that in some cities, you need a translator for English. There ought to be at least as much attention paid to the long-term goal of learning English as there is to the short-term solution of providing translation.

Did the Native Americans speak English? Last I checked we didn't accomidate either, and now we make those demands? It is not uncommon for a country to have mroe than one official language.

[Pumpkin1621]

How could you believe that we're overlooking the fact that learning a second language as an adult is difficult??? That is precisely what keeps most of us from doing so! It isn't any easier for us than it is for the people who have moved here. The bottom line is that if you want to live here, the onus should be on you to make the difficult transition, not to expect someone else to do so just to accommodate you. Period.

We have more resources to learn a new language. There are so many schools here, colleges, etc. Right now I am taking free French courses (via rosetta stone) through my library, and I plan to take college courses next summer. I doubt that Mexico has all of that. The economical difference is huge and we cannot expect them to meet the same educational standards we may put on ourselves. They just don't have the same education system we do.

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

they just don't have the same education system we do.

if you want to 'compare' systems - they don't have our health care system either!

i don't think any person on this thread so far has stated that "being bi-lingual is bad".

it's one thing to try and help someone out if they have a genuine need and emergency ---- but it is quite another to expect bi/multi lingual services just because you immigrate to a foreign land.

it doesn't mean the hosts are "resistive" or "lazy" - it's just that as "hosts" they also have certain "expectations" of "guests"... including 'following' the laws, customs etc. of the land.

imho, of course.

cheers,

[rn/writer, RN]

if you want to 'compare' systems - they don't have our health care system either!

i don't think any person on this thread so far has stated that "being bi-lingual is bad".

it's one thing to try and help someone out if they have a genuine need and emergency ---- but it is quite another to expect bi/multi lingual services just because you immigrate to a foreign land.

it doesn't mean the hosts are "resistive" or "lazy" - it's just that as "hosts" they also have certain "expectations" of "guests"... including 'following' the laws, customs etc. of the land.

imho, of course.

cheers,

this goes double--no triple--if you enter the country illegally. when you come here in defiance of the law, please do not take it personally when we balk at your demands.

[Pumpkin1621]

if you want to 'compare' systems - they don't have our health care system either!

and? i think if anyone is in this country they should have the right to be treated if they are ill. just like i would expect to be treated if i were in another country.

i don't think any person on this thread so far has stated that "being bi-lingual is bad".

i didn't say anyone was stating that.

it's one thing to try and help someone out if they have a genuine need and emergency ---- but it is quite another to expect bi/multi lingual services just because you immigrate to a foreign land.

i don't think they expect us to be able to communicate with them, but i'm sure that they think it would be nice. in fact the few people that i know that don't speak english wish they did, not the other way around.

it doesn't mean the hosts are "resistive" or "lazy" - it's just that as "hosts" they also have certain "expectations" of "guests"... including 'following' the laws, customs etc. of the land.

as i said before our ancestors didn't do that. they came here and didn't give a crap that they couldn't speak the native tongue. that isn't how things work anyway. people don't ever say oh lets be nice to our neighbors and incorporate their language into our society, usually official languages are added b/c there is a need for it. forgive me but your post does make you sound resistive. as i said earlier this is a global society and we need to start looking beyond our picket fences.

[LydiaNN]

We have more resources to learn a new language. There are so many schools here, colleges, etc. Right now I am taking free French courses (via rosetta stone) through my library, and I plan to take college courses next summer. I doubt that Mexico has all of that. The economical difference is huge and we cannot expect them to meet the same educational standards we may put on ourselves. They just don't have the same education system we do.

Once they get here, it is up to them to utilize the systems to learn English, not vice versa. It is simply unrealistic to think you can pull up stakes in your homeland, for whatever reason, travel to a land with more resources and opportunities and expect them to bend over backward to accommodate you. No siree, Roberto, I don't begrudge you your presence here (even if you didn't trouble yourself with obtaining permission to come), but expecting me to go to school to learn your language so that you don't have to learn mine just isn't going to cut it with me.

[Pumpkin1621]

Once they get here, it is up to them to utilize the systems to learn English, not vice versa. It is simply unrealistic to think you can pull up stakes in your homeland, for whatever reason, travel to a land with more resources and opportunities and expect them to bend over backward to accommodate you. No siree, Roberto, I don't begrudge you your presence here (even if you didn't trouble yourself with obtaining permission to come), but expecting me to go to school to learn your language so that you don't have to learn mine just isn't going to cut it with me.

Haha ok. Well that is your opinion and mine is different. I agree it should be an equal responsibiltiy and that they should learn english once they get here. If I am willing to take time to learn spanish they should respect us and do the same. (At least learn basics.)