Anti Vaxxer I Knew Became A Nurse

toomuchbaloney · Nov 27, 2023

chare said:

No, an FDA EUA isn't the same as approval.

Emergency Use Authorization

Yes, it's an FDA authorization to use the agent or device. I tend to view this specific argument about the covid vaccines to be based in suspicion and fear rather than in the evidence at that time that the vaccines were remarkably effective and safe.

klone, MSN, RN · Nov 27, 2023

We are both simply explaining that EUA is not approval. That's all.

toomuchbaloney · Nov 27, 2023

klone said:

We are both simply explaining that EUA is not approval. That's all.

It's FDA authorization to use the vaccine because it's been through the necessary trials and there was a pandemic.

I understand what you are saying. Do you understand that objection to the EUA because it's not the customary approval can be seen as a pedantic argument that causes people to hesitate to vaccinate during a pandemic? That hesitation cost lives and contributed to our healthcare system stress.

chare · Nov 27, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

It's FDA authorization to use the vaccine because it's been through the necessary trials and there was a pandemic.

[...]

Are you suggesting that thr COVID vaccine trials had been completed prior to the EUA being issued?

toomuchbaloney · Nov 27, 2023

chare said:

Are you suggesting that thr COVID vaccine trials had been completed prior to the EUA being issued?

We both know that the phase 3 trials were not complete before the EUA. Are you suggesting that the EUA wasn't a thoughtful exercise that closely examined all of the very abundant evidence of the efficacy and safety of the vaccines?

This is old stuff. Some folks let semantics and influencer driven "concern" make their vaccination decisions during the pandemic and it showed in our national morbidity and mortality.

Emergent, RN · Nov 27, 2023

There are a lot of people working in nursing who disagree with one thing or another. I personally manage my own health care and maintenance far differently than the standard medical approach.

The thing is, we as nurses have to work within the system as it is. Even if we disagree with certain therapies, we still have to carry out our jobs and stay neutral around the patients.

End of life issues are a biggie. A lot of us think that medicine goes so overboard in keeping people breathing, that it has become grotesque. I think your average ICU can present some very troubling scenarios.

The same can go with neonatal interventions on micro preemies. There are some ethical questions I have about how far medicine goes in some of these situations. I could never work in that specialty, even though there are a lot of great things it does as well.

**NICU Guy, BSN, RN** · Nov 28, 2023

I wish people would stop using the word "vaccine" when referring to Covid. For 225 yrs the definition of a vaccine was "a product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce an immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from the disease." Covid comes along and the CDC wants to use the word "vaccine" even though the shot does not provide immunity from the disease. The use of the word "vaccine" gives the public the impression that getting the Covid shot will prevent them from getting Covid. Once it was determined that it didn't prevent you from getting Covid and you need to get 4-5 booster shots to get any kind of protection, the CDC changed the definition of "Vaccine" to "a preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against a disease." They leave out the part of the definition relating to immunity from the disease. By that definition, Zinc, Vitamin D, Vitamin C are all vaccines. They don't prevent you from getting the Cold virus, but stimulate your immune response to fight against the Cold virus.

toomuchbaloney · Nov 28, 2023

NICU Guy said:

I wish people would stop using the word "vaccine" when referring to Covid. For 225 yrs the definition of a vaccine was "a product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce an immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from the disease." Covid comes along and the CDC wants to use the word "vaccine" even though the shot does not provide immunity from the disease. The use of the word "vaccine" gives the public the impression that getting the Covid shot will prevent them from getting Covid. Once it was determined that it didn't prevent you from getting Covid and you need to get 4-5 booster shots to get any kind of protection, the CDC changed the definition of "Vaccine" to "a preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against a disease." They leave out the part of the definition relating to immunity from the disease. By that definition, Zinc, Vitamin D, Vitamin C are all vaccines. They don't prevent you from getting the Cold virus, but stimulate your immune response to fight against the Cold virus.

You are welcome to your opinion no matter how tortured it is. Redefining words to make people feel better about their choices is commonplace in this modern era.

klone, MSN, RN · Nov 28, 2023

NO vaccine is 100% protective against the disease they're designed to prevent.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 28, 2023

We weren't mandated vaccines where I work (Florida) but many nurses opted out, mostly younger healthier people that didn't work the covid units. I wouldn't necessarily call them anti-vaxers though. I have taken the vaccine as I'm in my 60's and work with covid patients sometimes but haven't approved of mandates. The truth is thousands of unvaccinated people died here in Florida. Hopefully current strands of covid aren't going to be that virulent, but I'll probably vaccinate once a year along with the flu.

This forum has hashed and rehashed again the covid vaccine or whatever you want to call it. So I'll stop.

Yes there are vaccination injuries. There are injuries from people taking drugs they are allergic to as well. And not vaccines aren't 100% effective. But I'm not sure I understand a parent that goes through all the science education nursing requires and not want to vaccinate their family. I don't get that part.

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Dec 2, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

They weren't approved by the FDA?

They were mandated where I worked about two weeks before FDA approval.

nursej22, MSN, RN · Dec 2, 2023

NICU Guy said:

I wish people would stop using the word "vaccine" when referring to Covid. For 225 yrs the definition of a vaccine was "a product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce an immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from the disease." Covid comes along and the CDC wants to use the word "vaccine" even though the shot does not provide immunity from the disease. The use of the word "vaccine" gives the public the impression that getting the Covid shot will prevent them from getting Covid. Once it was determined that it didn't prevent you from getting Covid and you need to get 4-5 booster shots to get any kind of protection, the CDC changed the definition of "Vaccine" to "a preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against a disease." They leave out the part of the definition relating to immunity from the disease. By that definition, Zinc, Vitamin D, Vitamin C are all vaccines. They don't prevent you from getting the Cold virus, but stimulate your immune response to fight against the Cold virus.

Are you saying then that BCG is not a vaccine? It is given worldwide to prevent TB disease, especially miliary and meningeal TB in children. Depending on locale, it is 50-80% effective in preventing TB disease. It does not necessarily prevent TB infection, but it does seem to decrease the incidence of active TB disease.