We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
Andi anyone that specializes in homeopathy has lost all credibility with western medicine.
This is your opinion. Do you know why there are not studies???? Because why would pharmaceutical companies fund it? Do they have a gain? Does that mean it doesn't work? No. It means that you base your opinion on studies only...whether it is cherry picked and contains false or tainted data. You wouldn't know. Scientists are being told to produce false data. I can't make that point anymore clear. Just because there has not been a study done in a particular area does not mean that it doesn't work. It's so limited to just live your life based on studies alone. People who are involved in Homeopathy most likely do so because they have noticed evidence of it's benefits themselves.
Pharmaceutical companies do not control the research on vaccines as I have pointed out again again. The CDC and the FDA monitor VAERS and subsidize a significant portion of the ongoing phase IV/post-marketing studies on vaccines that occur all the time. There are similar systems in every western nation across the earth.
The conspiracy theory in and of itself is so asinine as to be a complete joke... As I understand it the belief is:
"The drug companies (and all researchers at a minimum) and government are conspiring to make the public use highly profitable vaccines that don't work so the drug companies will get rich".
1) There is far too much data that proves vaccines do work to believe they don't work. Smallpox anyone?
2) The drug companies are not making enough money off vaccines to warrant the effort except for the public health benefit.
3) If we stopped vaccinating and these diseases came back, then the drug companies would be able to sell far more drugs to treat the ill, at far higher profits.
So what is in it for the drug companies again? Low profits and angst? Yea that's a good reason for a conspiracy! lol
This is your opinion. Do you know why there are not studies???? Because why would pharmaceutical companies fund it? Do they have a gain? Does that mean it doesn't work? No. It means that you base your opinion on studies only...whether it is cherry picked and contains false or tainted data. You wouldn't know. Scientists are being told to produce false data. I can't make that point anymore clear. Just because there has not been a study done in a particular area does not mean that it doesn't work. It's so limited to just live your life based on studies alone. People who are involved in Homeopathy most likely do so because they have noticed evidence of it's benefits themselves.
That is like saying, "I don't need evidence. I just have to believe. And I don't care about your evidence either."
You think any evidence counter to your beliefs is falsified as the result of a conspiracy.
You think any opinion in favor of your beliefs is as good as fact.
Your denial of science is pathological in the literal sense that you reasoning is sickly and compulsively against logic. There is no need to look for red flag beliefs from you when you eloquently explain that your though processes are inherently illogical and that you are impervious to reason.
This is your opinion. Do you know why there are not studies???? Because why would pharmaceutical companies fund it? Do they have a gain?
Are you serious? You think drug companies fund all research? Get real!
Does that mean it doesn't work? No. It means that you base your opinion on studies only...whether it is cherry picked and contains false or tainted data. You wouldn't know. Scientists are being told to produce false data. I can't make that point anymore clear.
Prove it. Here you go again making false accusations without any proof. Show us some actual proof, not some silly youtube video of baseless claims, but actual proof. I know many, many academic scientists and everyone of them would disagree with this and be offended that you would impune their integrity with these baseless claims. Making false claims like that with no proof is slander, and you have now slandered the entire scientific community, which by the way is a felony, so add yourself to that list of big bad pharmacy companies.
Just because there has not been a study done in a particular area does not mean that it doesn't work. It's so limited to just live your life based on studies alone. People who are involved in Homeopathy most likely do so because they have noticed evidence of it's benefits themselves.
It's not that there are no studies, it's that the studies proved it to be completely useless. These same people who have noticed evidence of the benefits themselves, also noticed evidence of benefits from herbal supplements. When the state of NY and the NY Times sent those same supplements to independent labs, they found absolutely no traces of the ingredients listed on the bottles! The ironic thing about it is that many of these same people are believers in the trendy fad of gluten free diets, yet what was found in their herbal supplements was wheat products.... So those benefits were from the gluten in the supplements, not the missing herbs! Ah, the irony!
This is your opinion. Do you know why there are not studies???? Because why would pharmaceutical companies fund it? Do they have a gain? Does that mean it doesn't work? No. It means that you base your opinion on studies only...whether it is cherry picked and contains false or tainted data. You wouldn't know. Scientists are being told to produce false data. I can't make that point anymore clear. Just because there has not been a study done in a particular area does not mean that it doesn't work. It's so limited to just live your life based on studies alone. People who are involved in Homeopathy most likely do so because they have noticed evidence of it's benefits themselves.
That is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever read! You don't need pharmaceutical companies to fund any study. It also not an opinion that homeopathy does not work. It is stated summary based on peer-reviewed scientific literature.
You state that we are biased when you have absolutely no clue how research funding, how research is produced, or what it takes to get published in peer-reviewed scientific journal. You complain that other people do not agree with your opinions, but when someone offers you factual proof your only fall back is denial of the evidence and conspiracy theories.
A retrospective study costs basically costs nothing but time on when done a relatively small scale. Research studies don't have to cost millions of dollars to produce. The vast majority of research studies are done for a few thousand dollars or less.
Or for that matter you can go directly to the VAERS website here: Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System Please, pull your own data, do your own query and write a report showing your facts to be correct.... Were all patiently waiting for that!
How come when I post an opinion piece you all shove it in my face, but then you post opinions as well. Hmmm....
Did I post an opinion piece or an editorial explaining how the VAERS system works. I also posted a systematic review on the same post, which you "blissfully" overlooked.
Please don't knock the film if you have not seen it. It's like judging a book by it's cover. One thing I have noticed here is a lot of slander.
Here are Tony's other qualifications....
"EDUCATION
Dr. Bark received her Bachelor of Science degree in Psychology from The University of Illinois in 1981 and her medical degree from Rush Medical School in 1986.
Dr. Bark completed her Pediatric Residency training at the University of Illinois, Chicago, in 1991, and trained at New York University in Pediatrics from 1986 through 1987 and Rehabilitation Medicine from 1987 through 1988. Immediately post-residency, Dr. Bark worked as attending staff in the Neo-Natal Intensive Care Unit at Michael Reese Hospital. She then took a position as the Director of the Pediatric Emergency Room at Michael Reese Hospital until 1993 when her commitment to natural remedies led her to begin her study of Holistic Medicine.
She has maintained a private practice in Homeopathy for more than fifteen years and was the Medical Director for the integrative Medicine department of Advocate Health Care Systems at Good Shepherd Hospital from June of 2000 until July of 2003.
In 2012 Dr. Bark was bestowed the honor of becoming the 2nd Vice President of the American Institute of Homeopathy (AIH). She also received her Masters in Healthcare Emergency Management (MHEM) from Boston University Medical School that same year."
Unfortunately, this is no proof of anything. Dr. Oz is a legitmately trained and credentialed cardiac surgeon (isn't that his background? I apologize if I'm remembering wrong), and yet he is now hawking various types of "snake oil" on TV, and many of his med school classmates wonder what happened to him. Plenty of physicians have legitimate credentials but have gone off the rails at some point. The fact that she has legitimate credentials doesn't automatically mean that whatever crackpot ideas she's selling are automatically legitimate.
This is your opinion. Do you know why there are not studies???? Because why would pharmaceutical companies fund it?
As already noted, plenty of medical and pharmaceutical research is funded through sources other than Big Pharma. If the proponents of homeopathy are so convinced of its therapeutic value, there is nothing stopping them from doing research to demonstrate that to the world. If the studies were legitimately constructed and conducted, the rest of the scientific community would pay attention to the results. And, yet, no one ever seems to do those studies ...
Ok, I have officially watched the first 5 minutes of 'Bought".
Here are my observations thus far (I will continue to watch as I have time and respond):
1. Starts with an interview with the director who states that he "is not a scientist" and his goal is to encouraged dialogue because he believes in the "right to choose". Do you believe that foodservice workers have the "right to choose" to wash their hands after using the bathroom? Just curious.
2. Dr. Toni Bark MD: This is a science-educated physician who has chosen to pursue a different path in practice. She no longer practices evidenced based medicine and she has no listed publications outside of a editorial article she revised. She also makes profit from selling natropathic "cures".
Her opening statement: "We didn't used to see chronically debilitating diseases in children until recently". Wait, what? In 1955 (not that long ago) 50% of deaths were between ages 0-19, in 1995 only 28%. Between 2000 and 2010 the death rate under age 25 dropped 15.8%. Maybe kids are actually surviving these days.
Her follow-up statement: Diseases like obesity, autisim, and ADD. Are these the disease we are most worried about in kids? Obesity is a major concern chronically but that's not related to vaccines on most people's radar.
Her rationale: These chronic debilitating disease are new. What else is new? GMO and vaccines. Wait, what about other things that are also new like television, iphones, the internet, cars, electricity, indoor plumbing, allnurses.com, Fox News, CNN, etc etc etc. Association does not mean causation as just about everyone understands.
Her argument: Kids today aren't liek what they were 200 years ago. No they are not. Most of them are alive nowadays.
No evidence presented.
3. Sarah Bridges, PhD - Her child had a febrile seizure after having a pertussis vaccine and now has intractable seizures and developmental delay. His diagnosis is "brain injury from pertussis vaccine"
See actual science: Risk of Seizures and Encephalopathy After Immunization With the Diphtheria-Tetorifice-Pertussis Vaccine Marie R. Griffin, MD, MPH; Wayne A. Ray, PhD; Edward A. Mortimer, MD; Gerald M. Fenichel, MD; William Schaffner, MD JAMA. 1990;263(12):1641-1645
Holistic12, BSN
124 Posts
This is your opinion. Do you know why there are not studies???? Because why would pharmaceutical companies fund it? Do they have a gain? Does that mean it doesn't work? No. It means that you base your opinion on studies only...whether it is cherry picked and contains false or tainted data. You wouldn't know. Scientists are being told to produce false data. I can't make that point anymore clear. Just because there has not been a study done in a particular area does not mean that it doesn't work. It's so limited to just live your life based on studies alone. People who are involved in Homeopathy most likely do so because they have noticed evidence of it's benefits themselves.