We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
I work on a campus w/ multiple hospitals, each providing a different specialty, I lose count of how many Women's Health/OB RN's bring their children in [for non-emergency complaints] then through triaging we learn they are not vaccinated. I really don't understand their line of thinking, to each their own and such, but you don't get to be offended when we isolate your child and wear proper PPE because your child has a FUO and you actively chose a certain pediatrician that caters to the un-vaccinated herd.
Big pharma is most definitely evil. They profit off illness. That's capitalism at its finest. (
I am fully vaccinated, as are my husband and children. Regardless of the evils of big pharma, the science is there, intact. The fact that you completely deny your education on this, and put your community and patients at risk, makes you negligent. It just does. I don't understand how you can reconcile these choices with your duty to protect the public and promote health.
I accept I'm being judgmental when I say that, but genuinely, I am curious about this. I just don't understand how this thought process makes sense to you. I understand you feel it's poison, but what about your duty to your patients?
Forgive the bluntness and probable rudeness of how I'm stating this. I worked last night and should definitely get off the interwebs to sleep.
Please don't knock the film if you have not seen it. It's like judging a book by it's cover. One thing I have noticed here is a lot of slander.
Here are Tony's other qualifications....
"EDUCATION
Dr. Bark received her Bachelor of Science degree in Psychology from The University of Illinois in 1981 and her medical degree from Rush Medical School in 1986.
Dr. Bark completed her Pediatric Residency training at the University of Illinois, Chicago, in 1991, and trained at New York University in Pediatrics from 1986 through 1987 and Rehabilitation Medicine from 1987 through 1988. Immediately post-residency, Dr. Bark worked as attending staff in the Neo-Natal Intensive Care Unit at Michael Reese Hospital. She then took a position as the Director of the Pediatric Emergency Room at Michael Reese Hospital until 1993 when her commitment to natural remedies led her to begin her study of Holistic Medicine.
She has maintained a private practice in Homeopathy for more than fifteen years and was the Medical Director for the integrative Medicine department of Advocate Health Care Systems at Good Shepherd Hospital from June of 2000 until July of 2003.
In 2012 Dr. Bark was bestowed the honor of becoming the 2nd Vice President of the American Institute of Homeopathy (AIH). She also received her Masters in Healthcare Emergency Management (MHEM) from Boston University Medical School that same year."
Over marketing and profiteering does not = Worldwide conspiracy on vaccines.
No one is going to deny that all large corporations, including pharmaceutical companies, are interested in profit margins, but trying to equate that to every peer-reviewed scientific article being wrong about vaccines that have been around for decades has no basis in logic.
I think some of on you on this thread have denied it. You balk at the thought of Big Pharma. I'm pretty sure some have said it's just a conspiracy. There is also fraud with GSK. The whistle blower is in the bought movie and discusses it.
So you wonder why people don't have always faith in the medical system or vaccines? If scientists are being asked to cherry pick data and only show the good, it could be happening a lot more than we realize. This isn't conspiracy. It's reality.
We see here that even the scientists are appalled. They are the ones beginning to blow the whistle and stand up against the wrongdoing going on.
Also, in the bought movie, it is mentioned that the Gardasil vaccine was not properly studied using a placebo. One group was given the vaccine, while the other group was given aluminum. How is that a proper study? There was no control group.
Scroll to the clinical trials section. It does say 7 trials were done and 5 out of the 7 used aluminum. I guess 7 trials is enough? Why use aluminum in 5 out of 7? I don't think so. I don't think they gave it enough time, and many girls are paying the price.
I don't have to watch a movie to judge it. I can research the movie, the people in it, and the ideas they present. I won't watch the movie because it is full of lies, half-truths, misinformation, and I'm not a fan of homeopathy. It would be a waste of time for me and I'd just get my blood pressure to spike and that's not healthy.
The article posted a few pages before and the one highlighted in the "meme" above talks about just one lie and that is about "aluminum" and "brain injury". There is a link to an article by my hero, Dr. Paul Offit, that debunks that lie. Using scientific research.
Aluminum-containing vaccines are not the only source of aluminum exposure for infants. Because aluminum is 1 of the most abundant elements in the earth's crust and is present in air, food, and water, all infants are exposed to aluminum in the environment. For example, breast milk contains approximately 40 μg of aluminum per liter, and infant formulas contain an average of approximately 225 μg of aluminum per liter.36–40 Vaccines contain quantities of aluminum similar to those contained in infant formulas (Table 3). However, because large quantities of aluminum can cause serious neurologic effects in humans,41 guidelines were established by the ATSDR.For determining the quantity of aluminum below which safety is likely, data were generated in mice that were inoculated orally with various quantities of aluminum lactate.42 No adverse reactions were observed when mice were fed quantities of aluminum as high as 62 mg/kg/day. By applying uncertainty factors of 3 (for extrapolation to humans) and 10 (for human variability), the ATSDR concluded that the minimum risk level for exposure to aluminum was 2 mg/kg/day.43 The half-life of elimination of aluminum from the body is approximately 24 hours.41 Therefore, the burden of aluminum to which infants are exposed in food36–40 and vaccines (Table 3) is clearly less than the guideline established by the ATSDR and far less than that found to be safe in experimental animals.41,42
I don't have to watch a movie to judge it. I can research the movie the people in it, and the ideas they present. I won't watch the movie because it is full of lies, half-truths, misinformation, and I'm not a fan of homeopathy.[/quote']
I have researched the people in it. Their ideas are not just ideas. It. is. what. is. really. happening. (See post above with fraud and whistle blowing scientists) But okay, you can choose to remain in bliss.
Whether or not you agree with homeopathy is your choice, but do not go slandering another person trying to discredit their medical background fully just because they also practice homeopathy. Before modern medicine such things were used. Chinese medicine has been around for thousands of years as well. They all have their place in health. I find your memes to be offensive and unnecessary. Because someone questions safety and policy does not make them anti anything.
Andi anyone that specializes in homeopathy has lost all credibility with western medicine. There are not any peer-reviewed scientific studies that show homeopathy works beyond a placebo effect. It does not even make commonsense how homeopathy could work. The people that you so frequently like to site make their living off of denouncing western medicine and vaccines in particular.
Pharmaceutical companies on the other hand make a profit off of selling vaccines, which accounts for 1.5% of their sales of pharmaceuticals depending on the company. Pharmaceutical companies do not control the research on vaccines as I have pointed out again again. The CDC and the FDA monitor VAERS and subsidize a significant portion of the ongoing phase IV/post-marketing studies on vaccines that occur all the time. There are similar systems in every western nation across the earth.
The only people that are living in "bliss" are anti-vaccine people that fail to realize the absurdity of their bias when thousands of scientific studies are placed before them stating that vaccines are safe and effective. Their will never be a completely 100% safe medication, but there is nothing to suggest that any of the adverse effects with vaccines are more than what is claimed by pharmaceutical companies or that there is some unknown disease/illness caused from vaccines.
Just to summarize: Anyone that agrees with your opinion on vaccines can be a legitimate and often times an expert on the dangers on vaccines, and anyone that does not support that opinion against vaccines is hiding something or being paid off by pharmaceutical companies despite the hundreds of thousands of scientists, researchers, and health care providers that would have to be in on this global conspiracy.
I think some of on you on this thread have denied it. You balk at the thought of Big Pharma. I'm pretty sure some have said it's just a conspiracy. There is also fraud with GSK. The whistle blower is in the bought movie and discusses it.
So you wonder why people don't have always faith in the medical system or vaccines? If scientists are being asked to cherry pick data and only show the good, it could be happening a lot more than we realize. This isn't conspiracy. It's reality.
We see here that even the scientists are appalled. They are the ones beginning to blow the whistle and stand up against the wrongdoing going on.
Also, in the bought movie, it is mentioned that the Gardasil vaccine was not properly studied using a placebo. One group was given the vaccine, while the other group was given aluminum. How is that a proper study? There was no control group.
Scroll to the clinical trials section. It does say 7 trials were done and 5 out of the 7 used aluminum. I guess 7 trials is enough? Why use aluminum in 5 out of 7? I don't think so. I don't think they gave it enough time, and many girls are paying the price.
You cannot have it both ways either pharmaceutical companies can be held accountable for their actions or they can't be, because you have argued this both ways. To me these large class action suits signify there is significant oversight of pharmaceutical companies, which you keep implying does not exist.
I have researched the people in it. Their ideas are not just ideas. It. is. what. is. really. happening. (See post above with fraud and whistle blowing scientists) But okay, you can choose to remain in bliss.
Whether or not you agree with homeopathy is your choice, but do not go slandering another person trying to discredit their medical background fully just because they also practice homeopathy. Before modern medicine such things were used. Chinese medicine has been around for thousands of years as well. They all have their place in health. I find your memes to be offensive and unnecessary. Because someone questions safety and policy does not make them anti anything.
Bliss? Well, yes . . .I do feel "perfect happiness; great joy" in realizing by this anecdotal thread that at least here on AN, there are not very many anti-vax nurses.
As to homeopathy - my beef with that is the idea that homeopathy cures anything because there is no scientific data that suggest its efficacy is anything more than a manifestation of the placebo effect.
I am not in favor of banning it - go ahead if you want to use it. But just don't tell people it is a cure for cancer or diabetes or scoliosis (that one really bugs me). Don't tell people not to get a flu shot but just rub on some essential oil to both feet and you will be cured! Don't tell people that vaccines are useless when there is a mountain of scientific research and peer-reviewed evidence that says otherwise.
As to the memes . .. . . sometimes you have to fight back against anti-vaccine memes by using the same strategy which is why I love that FB page.
Andi doesn't understand red flags that reveal mindsets and underpin entire perspectives.
Anyone who believes in homeopathy either doesn't understand science or has outright rejected it. Therefor, anything they have to say about medicine or science can be disregarded outright.
Anyone who believes in Mr. Wakefield's discredited, disavowed, fraudulent work either doesn't understand science or has outright rejected it. Therefor, anything they have to say about medicine or science can be disregarded outright.
Andi anyone that specializes in homeopathy has lost all credibility with western medicine. There are not any peer-reviewed scientific studies that show homeopathy works beyond a placebo effect. It does not even make commonsense how homeopathy could work.
I posted before I read your comments. Obviously I'm in agreement.
May I say (again) how much I applaud how well you and BostonFNP and many others have painstakingly and patiently written about this subject.
GPSteiner
20 Posts
I work on a campus w/ multiple hospitals, each providing a different specialty, I lose count of how many Women's Health/OB RN's bring their children in [for non-emergency complaints] then through triaging we learn they are not vaccinated. I really don't understand their line of thinking, to each their own and such, but you don't get to be offended when we isolate your child and wear proper PPE because your child has a FUO and you actively chose a certain pediatrician that caters to the un-vaccinated herd.