Andrea Yates R.N.

Sheri257 · Jul 1, 2006

I don't think you understand psychosis.

When it comes to murdering innocent children, I probably don't understand it. At that point, I tend to worry about the victims of these crimes.

The victims don't understand it either. This poor woman's father was shot, along with six other people, by a paranoid schizophrenic 30 years ago. At age 60, she still hasn't gotten over it.

http://home.myoc.com/media/allaway052106/

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1150116.php

She doesn't believe that the man who shot her father three times has a mental illness, particularly since he took the time to reload. The jury didn't believe it either and was deadlocked, so the judge ruled not guilty by reason of insanity.

And, interestingly enough ... the paranoid schizophrenia is now supposedly in "remission." Consequently, he tried to get out a couple of years ago but, the family's protests and subsequent uproar prevented it.

Because this guy was diagnosed with a mental illness and is now "cured," this woman has had to fight to keep this guy off the streets. She'll probably have to fight the system all over again since he's also eligible for release in the future.

Should a victim of this type of crime have to go through all of this in the name of "mental illness"? Do we not also care about the grief and suffering these families go through?

:typing

PANurseRN1 · Jul 1, 2006

I don't think anyone is discounting the horror those children must have endured. It's unimaginable.

But do you blame everyone with a chronic illness who has a relapse? Really, the lack of understanding regarding how difficult mental illness is to treat is very discouraging, coming from people who claim to be nurses.

SharonH, RN · Jul 1, 2006

this woman murdered her children. yes, she was mentally ill. yes she had a psychotic episode. but does that make her less culpable?

YES! It does. Come on nurses, what is psychosis? By definition, it is a loss of contact with reality, characterized by delusions and hallucinations. How can you hold someone accountable under those circumstances?

Let me propose a scenario to you: if a diabetic goes into insulin shock and during that brief time period before they collapse they are aggressive and hit someone, should they be held fully accountable and charged with assault? Or if they are driving and hit someone when an episode occurs, should they be charged with vehicular manslaughter?

No one said pat her on the hand and send her home but you cannot hold her to the same standards as someone who is fully cognizant of their actions.

SharonH, RN · Jul 1, 2006

I don't think you understand psychosis.

She's not the only one. A lot of people are responding with their emotions.

Jupiter Crash · Jul 1, 2006

thank you soooo much for your post. while this case was a clear tragedy, especially for the children, there were so many warning signs, and unfortunately no one, not even those children's father, stood between her and her actions. andrea had been hospitalized in the past, was clearly delusional at the time, and was off of her very serious psychiatric medications. she had attempted suicide in the past. people ask why she continued having children if they just made her crazy? because she was crazy. rusty on the other hand is seen as the poor father. he did not have the excuse of psychosis when he chose to continue to conceive children with this woman, refuse to allow her to have anyone in to help her, or to help her around the house because he believes in 'traditional' gender roles. instead he continued to have as many 'blessings' as the lord would send them, regardless of the effect those 'blessings' had on his wife. now andrea, who is not asking to be released by the way, goes through another trial, and rusty got married last weekend in the same church that hosted his children's funerals. she is insane, she needs longterm help, she has to deal with the fact that she is responsible for her children's deaths for the rest of her life, but apparently rusty shares none of the culpability.
this is a tragedy for everyone involved.

very good point!!! thank you for posting it!!!!!!!

sad thing to happen.

burn out · Jul 1, 2006

Why are people so insensitive to the issue of post partum psychosis? Is it because it is a female illness only therefore not as serious? If Andrea had been drunk or on crack or suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome

would she be better understood? The really scarey thought is that there is an Andrea Yates lurking in all of us . We all have the capacity to break with reality the same way that she did under certain conditions.

fergus51 · Jul 1, 2006

Well ... that's the thing, isn't it. Nobody's responsible for practically anything in our society, including taking their meds and taking care of their kids. And you can keep having kids and, even murder them ... and there will be a ton of excuses for that horrible act as long as your "sick."
It's like people don't even care about how the kids must have suffered, the the terror they must have felt ... because mom was "mentally ill."
Mental illness has become the great excuse for murder and everything else. When you think about it, people have to be "sick" to some extent to murder somebody, period. I suppose we should make excuses for all of them also ....
When you send the message that people aren't responsible for anything, there's something wrong with that message.
:typing

That's not the message at all. She wasn't simply "mentally ill" or "sick" (in quotation marks as though it's something that she made up). She was psychotic. I hold most people responsible for their actions, but there are exceptions.

I resent the insinuation that if you believe psychotics (who are by definition out of touch with reality) are not as responsible as rational people, then you don't care about the victims of their actions. That's completely untrue. It's possible to care about those children and feel terrible for their suffering without wanting their mother's head. They are two separate issues.

CoffeeRTC, BSN, RN · Jul 1, 2006

Okay....I read the title and sifted thru some of the responses and my first thought was. So what...she WAS a nurse? What difference does that mean?

firstyearstudent · Jul 1, 2006

What makes me so sad is to think how trapped this woman must have felt to think that this was her only way out of whatever hell she was in. As a mother and a nurse she must have felt an extraordinary amount of responsibility for her children. If she'd only been a little less "responsible" and more neglectful, she might have just sneaked out the house that day and kept walking -- and those children would still be alive.

LydiaNN · Jul 1, 2006

What makes me so sad is to think how trapped this woman must have felt to think that this was her only way out of whatever hell she was in. As a mother and a nurse she must have felt an extraordinary amount of responsibility for her children. If she'd only been a little less "responsible" and more neglectful, she might have just sneaked out the house that day and kept walking -- and those children would still be alive.

I remember after the Susan Smith tragedy, a local woman was on the news saying that she was so mortified after her own daughter had walked out and left her children in their grandmother's (the person being interviewed) care, without so much as a by your leave. Then she realized what might have happened and decided that her daughter had chosen the lesser of two evils.

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Jul 1, 2006

I believe Andrea Yates truly is psychotic.

However, society must be protected from people like her. Andrea Yates should spend the rest of her life in a secure setting where she is supervised at all times, made to take her medications, and given psychotherapy; perhaps in this manner she can someday become a contributing member of the human race once again. Many people have done so, even though they were never again free to walk the streets and pose a danger to others; with her nursing background, she could serve as a resource for health information and thus give something back to the world, which would benefit not only her fellow patients but help her to feel better about herself in the long run.

Yes, the mother (and grandmother) in me would like nothing more than to see Andrea thrown so far back in prison they'd have to pipe light in, or strapped to a gurney and given the needle. I can't even bear to think of her little ones, or what they must have felt as the mother they trusted forced their heads under the water and held them there while they fought for their lives. But I also know that psychosis IS a medical illness, and the hell Andrea has already gone through---and will suffer every day of the rest of her life---must surely be a punishment fitting her crime. Let her remain in a secure mental institution, where she can receive treatment and try to make sense of what happened, so that some good can come from the 40 or so years left to her.

JMHO.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Jul 1, 2006

Here's a good short summary of the case.
http://crime.about.com/od/current/p/andreayates.htm
Personally, I think she was delusional, insane, and nuts as they come. Her trouble seemed to escalate when a new psychiatrist took her off of the haldol and told her to "think positive thoughts."
Any justice out there for her ex-husband Rusty? Let's just say I'm not fond of him and find him morally reprehensible.

I agree totally.