Andrea Yates R.N.

Sheri257 · Jun 30, 2006

Hmm...it seems like you are describing a 'state mental facility' more than a forensic psych facility. There are different levels of care/institutions. I would be surprised if violent or homicidally delusional psych offenders are left to roam around campus ad lib.

Nope, it wasn't a state mental facility. This was a criminal psych facility. And yes, murderers were allowed to roam around campus if they stayed on their meds, behaved, etc. If they were violent then their grounds privileges were revoked but if they weren't violent after a certain period of time then, they could walk around with a lot of freedom.

I'm not saying I agree with it but, that was the policy ... and it sure beat prison.

:typing

Nightcrawler, BSN, RN · Jun 30, 2006

true, but that's assuming that they are, in fact, mentally ill. you can also fake mental illness. talk to any doctor in a criminal psych facility, and they will tell you that up to a third of the patients who are in there are fakers who really belong in prison. there's a reason that malingering is such a common problem.
my point is: as long as you can fake a mental illness, and the doctors can be fooled then, we will always have this debate. because even the doctors can't always accurately determine who's faking and who's not.
:typing

in this case, her mental illness was well documented over the course of years. she had been hospitalized after her last child when she attempted suicide. she truly would be a monster if she faked severe mental illness for years so that she would have a defense when she finally put her diabolical long term plan to kill her children into effect. come on, some may malinger, maybe, but that just isn't the case here

Sheri257 · Jun 30, 2006

If a psych patient is proven in court to be harmful to themselves or others, or they don't have adequate cognition to understand why they need medication, they can be court ordered to take medications. If they don't take them PO, they can get an involuntary shot once every other week, etc. They can also be put on community programs whereby someone makes a daily housecall to ensure they are taking meds/safe etc. This is the extreme end of the spectrum, reserved only for those that are habitually non-compliant and dangerous.

True, although I remember the staff complaining about some problem with the law where some patients could legally refuse their meds under certain circumstances. Different court orders had come down and it was a fluid situation, apparently. Maybe it varies by state ... this was in California.

:typing

ONSnrs · Jun 30, 2006

A nurse? I did not know. That should show any jury in their right mind though that she had the education to know there was something wrong with her feelings and be more proactive about protecting her children against any so called, "depression."

Editorial Team / Admin · Jun 30, 2006

When one is in the throes of an illness such as post-partum psychosis, one does not and cannot recognize the severity of the decompensating circumstances surrounding the individual. And, this woman is not a medical doctor much less a psychiatrist and therefore, cannot be held to the standards of care for her own s/s recognition, diagnosis and treatment.

PANurseRN1 · Jun 30, 2006

For the love of Mike. :uhoh3:

You're demanding rational thought from someone who is not capable of being rational.

How many times have we heard stories about medical professionals ignoring hallmark symptoms of heart disease/cancer/other serious illnesses? Are we as judgemental and heartless with them? Hate what she did, but don't hate her. We all know that sometimes diseases can't be controlled, even when everything is done the "right way."

I simply cannot fathom how many people here have such an appalling lack of understanding regarding mental illness. It's frightening, really.

CHATSDALE · Jul 1, 2006

the fathers smith/yates could have prevented these tragedies if they had stepped up to the plate

yates was a rn by training and experience but she was not employed at the time of the drownings..she was home with children, home schooling, very limited contact with other adults, ..except for the md who told her to have happy thoughts and members of the church who felt that she should be happy for her blessings

she had mental problems for years, didn't need the responsibity of five small children

and the ones who should be responsible???doctor will write this off as 'a learning experience' husband has taken a new wife and will start all over again with everybody saying what a saint he is

traumahawk99 · Jul 1, 2006

Here's a good short summary of the case.
http://crime.about.com/od/current/p/andreayates.htm
Personally, I think she was delusional, insane, and nuts as they come. Her trouble seemed to escalate when a new psychiatrist took her off of the haldol and told her to "think positive thoughts."
Any justice out there for her ex-husband Rusty? Let's just say I'm not fond of him and find him morally reprehensible.

i don't buy it for a second that she rationally plotted out the murder of her children. obviously, this is one very crazy lady. pitiful. that she was a nurse means nothing either way.

and i agree... her husband was a stupid jerk to insist that someone who had such obvious mental problems continue having children. what an idiot!

lorster · Jul 1, 2006

Pardon me if I seem insensitive to her for the post partum defense(which I can understand would be very difficult to handle), but I personally think they need lock her up and throw away the key. There's NO excuse for killing anyone, especially your own 5 children. NONE.

Yes, you are right...but then...how do you feel about the war in iraq? Should all those soldiers be locked up and the key thrown away? They are all sane as can be. What about Bush? Maybe he should be locked up too? Its all killing. What makes one better than the other?

Editorial Team / Admin · Jul 1, 2006

I understand the passionate responses and the analogies, but let's keep political comment out of the thread, o.k.?? Let's not bring in the war in Iraq.

Thanks

mzkede · Jul 1, 2006

In all fairness to some of the nurses comments, as a mother it is hard to understand or stomach this type of behavior. Unfortunately, child abuse is so common today. You don't know who or what to believe. However, IF she is mentally ill, even as a healthcare provider it's still difficult to understand, no matter what book knowledge, skills, or experience you or I may have as a nurse, some cases are extreme. But my job is not to judge, it's to care. Honestly, I don't want the job of judging. IF she's not mentally ill, God help her. She has to account for what she did and live with it.

Jo Dirt · Jul 1, 2006

i don't buy it for a second that she rationally plotted out the murder of her children. obviously, this is one very crazy lady. pitiful. that she was a nurse means nothing either way.
and i agree... her husband was a stupid jerk to insist that someone who had such obvious mental problems continue having children. what an idiot!

I agree. And about the comments that she knew what she was doing was wrong because she called the police afterward. In a psychotic person's mind there is NO RATIONALITY. When a person is is not rational you can not use reason to judge their actions. There is a big difference.