Andrea Yates R.N.

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Did you know that Andrea Yates, the woman who is now being re-tried for drowning her 5 children in Texas was a nurse? I just thought it was interesting.

I agree totally that Andrea Yates was severely mentally ill.

I don't understand why everyone is being so cruel to her husband though. I have several family members who battle mental illness. It is incredibley tough to deal with. And even when you understand it's an illness it is very hard to do the right thing and help them in the right way. Even with the best intentions it is easy to put pressure on someone to do something "you" think will help them when it really may not be in their best interest.

Also, unless he forcibly raped her, I don't think you can blame him for not stopping her from having children. What would you guys say if a women was interested in having a baby and her husband said "sorry, you have a mental illness, no more children for you!" In most cases, someone with a mental illness can still be a loving and effective parent. This was a horrible tragedy.

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
I agree totally that Andrea Yates was severely mentally ill.

I don't understand why everyone is being so cruel to her husband though. I have several family members who battle mental illness. It is incredibley tough to deal with. And even when you understand it's an illness it is very hard to do the right thing and help them in the right way. Even with the best intentions it is easy to put pressure on someone to do something "you" think will help them when it really may not be in their best interest.

Also, unless he forcibly raped her, I don't think you can blame him for not stopping her from having children. What would you guys say if a women was interested in having a baby and her husband said "sorry, you have a mental illness, no more children for you!" In most cases, someone with a mental illness can still be a loving and effective parent. This was a horrible tragedy.

He urged Andrea to go off of her Haldol and other psych meds so she could get pregnant again. And again. This despite her psychiatrist telling them after all her hospitalizations that she should not have more children. Her husband Rusty, a physicist at NASA also moved the family into a BUS for their home in order to in his words "live light and save some money." He also made a point of bragging that he never changed one of his FIVE children's dipers in all those years - it was Andrea's job. To his credit, I've read that he visited her every single day when she was hospitalized, and appeared kind to her during visiting hours.

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Nope, it wasn't a state mental facility. This was a criminal psych facility. And yes, murderers were allowed to roam around campus if they stayed on their meds, behaved, etc. If they were violent then their grounds privileges were revoked but if they weren't violent after a certain period of time then, they could walk around with a lot of freedom.

I'm not saying I agree with it but, that was the policy ... and it sure beat prison.

:typing

In that case I bet you did have a ton of felons faking mental illness. Fortunately, we don't have the type of facilities you describe where I live. They are definitely prisons, but with focused mental health care.

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True, but that's assuming that they are, in fact, mentally ill. You CAN also fake mental illness. Talk to any doctor in a criminal psych facility, and they will tell you that up to a third of the patients who are in there are fakers who really belong in prison. There's a reason that malingering is such a common problem.

My point is: as long as you can fake a mental illness, and the doctors can be fooled then, we will always have this debate. Because even the doctors can't always accurately determine who's faking and who's not.

typing: quote

Amen. The doctors are often as nutty as the pts. and they definitely do not know everything there is to know about what's in someone else's brain. They can only give it their best shot when it comes to diagnosing and treating. Yet so many of them act like they really think they know with certainty what the trouble is and how to treat it. Psychiatry is endlessly fascinating because we just really do not know what is going on in someone else's mind.

Think about the closing scene in "Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte" and the thoughts Betty Davis was thinking. Absolutely fascinating.

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Yes, I've been in a forensic psych facility. Maybe the one you're familar with is different from the one I've been in but ... it beat prison by leaps and bounds. For one thing, you're not shackled. You're not locked up in a cell for 23 out of 24 hours a day. You get to walk around, watch TV pretty much any time you want to. They had grounds privileges so they got to garden, swim in a pool, etc. It's a much better deal and the reason why they had so many fakers.

First of all, I'm not saying Andrea is faking. I really don't know. My overall point is that you usually can't prove mental illness like you can prove diabetes. So, there's always going to be this debate and questions about the validity of the condition, especially when there's a crime involved.

As far as the Haldol, Andrea was also non-compliant with her medication. So that gets back to issues about personal responsibility, etc.

:typing

How can we say that someone who is sick is responsible for not taking their meds? Or responsible for anything, for that matter?

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He urged Andrea to go off of her Haldol and other psych meds so she could get pregnant again. And again. This despite her psychiatrist telling them after all her hospitalizations that she should not have more children. Her husband Rusty, a physicist at NASA also moved the family into a BUS for their home in order to in his words "live light and save some money." He also made a point of bragging that he never changed one of his FIVE children's dipers in all those years - it was Andrea's job. To his credit, I've read that he visited her every single day when she was hospitalized, and appeared kind to her during visiting hours.

Old Rusty sounds like a real winner. I hope he is castrated. Actually, I think they guy has remarried and probably started a new family, Heaven help us.

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Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.
Old Rusty sounds like a real winner. I hope he is castrated. Actually, I think they guy has remarried and probably started a new family, Heaven help us.

Yep, he did, and the word on the street is he married another woman who is quiet, shy, religious, and obedient. Hope we never have to hear of a second tragedy involving that man.:madface:

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Education and Achievements:

Andrea Meets Rusty Yates:

The Yates Children:

Their Living Conditions:

Michael Woroniecki:

Andrea’s First Suicide Attempt :

Spiraling Downward:

Warned About the Risks of Having More Babies :

New Hopes for the Future :

The Tragic End:

Dr. Mohammed Saeed, treated her briefly with Haldol but discontinued it, saying that she did not did not seem psychotic. Andrea was released only to return again in May. She was released in 10 days and in her last follow-up visit with Saeed, she was told to think positive thoughts and to see a psychologist.

http://crime.about.com/od/current/p/andreayates.htm

After reading this, I'd say this woman was definitely mentally ill, psychotic, a self-mutilator, a victim of her psychiatrist, husband, and that preacher.

Full article text deleted and link to original source provided per our TOS on copyright infringement...

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Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
After reading this, I'd say this woman was definitely mentally ill, psychotic, a self-mutilator, a victim of her psychiatrist, husband, and that preacher.

Agreed, and her children were the victims of them all, plus the system that didn't protect them from a mother who was known to neglect them and a father that didn't have the sense to ensure they were safe from her.

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How can we say that someone who is sick is responsible for not taking their meds? Or responsible for anything, for that matter?

Well ... that's the thing, isn't it. Nobody's responsible for practically anything in our society, including taking their meds and taking care of their kids. And you can keep having kids and, even murder them ... and there will be a ton of excuses for that horrible act as long as your "sick."

It's like people don't even care about how the kids must have suffered, the the terror they must have felt ... because mom was "mentally ill."

Mental illness has become the great excuse for murder and everything else. When you think about it, people have to be "sick" to some extent to murder somebody, period. I suppose we should make excuses for all of them also ....

When you send the message that people aren't responsible for anything, there's something wrong with that message.

:typing

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
Well ... that's the thing, isn't it. Nobody's responsible for practically anything in our society, including taking their meds and taking care of their kids. And you can keep having kids and, even murder them ... and there will be a ton of excuses for that horrible act as long as your "sick."

It's like people don't even care about how the kids must have suffered, the the terror they must have felt ... because mom was "mentally ill."

Mental illness has become the great excuse for murder and everything else. When you think about it, people have to be "sick" to some extent to murder somebody, period. I suppose we should make excuses for all of them also ....

When you send a message that people aren't responsible for anything, there's something wrong with that message.

:typing

I don't think you understand psychosis.

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Specializes in Acute Med, Pediatric Hematology-Oncology.

there still has to be some level of personal responsibility. this woman murdered her children. yes, she was mentally ill. yes she had a psychotic episode. but does that make her less culpable? does it mean that since she had a psychotic break we should pat her on the hand and say, "there there, it's ok. you've learned your lesson" and send her on her way?

well, let me pose this scenario:

i had a patient on the psych ward. this patient was there because this person expressed to someone the desire to "touch little girls". this was the main psychiatric issue. when the police went into this patients apartment, they found pictures of little girls taken from magazines (like Sears or walmart), and they found girl's underwear (that this patient had bought from a store). but they found nothing that they could charge this patient with. eventually this patient was discharged because there was nothing more that could be done. no arrest could be made because no crime has been commited. while in hospital the patient complied with medications (although there was a history of going off of meds) and seemed to be making progress (however, they also had been in and out of the system for uite a while). in essence....nothing else could be done from a healthcare perspective. this patient is a ticking time bomb. generally speaking, people react to this kid of case with disgust. and attitudes are far less forgiving than what i have seen here. however, it seems as though, according to some people, if a little girl is harmed by this person....then we should have an attitude of forgiveness. after all, this person is "mentally ill" and cannot be held fully responsible for their actions.

why is there a difference in judgement? is it because andrea yates is a woman? because she was a housewife and therefore doesn't fit the stereotype? personally i do not regard any form of psychosis as being an excuse for murder. a person cannot rely on anyone else for their own health. if a smoker has a heart attack, he cant blame his spouse because they let him smoke. if a mentally ill person has a break they can't blame their spouse for letting them not take their meds.

anyways, i hope this post conveys the point i was trying to get across.

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