Andrea Yates R.N.

Liddle Noodnik · Jun 30, 2006

she is insane, she needs longterm help, she has to deal with the fact that she is responsible for her children's deaths for the rest of her life, but apparently rusty shares none of the culpability.
this is a tragedy for everyone involved.

yep, i agree.

was this situation like the one recently where a woman overdosed her daughter and killed her? there had been many reports to human services of abuse and neglect: of the girl, and of other siblings, that had not been acted upon. see:

http://www.mlive.com/news/bctimes/index.ssf?/base/news-6/1142439356308960.xml&coll=4

was there a current ongoing investigation of the yates'?

Liddle Noodnik · Jun 30, 2006

True, but that's assuming that they are, in fact, mentally ill. You CAN also fake mental illness. Talk to any doctor in a criminal psych facility, and they will tell you that up to a third of the patients who are in there are fakers who really belong in prison. There's a reason that malingering is such a common problem.
My point is: as long as you can fake a mental illness, and the doctors can be fooled then, we will always have this debate. Because even the doctors can't always accurately determine who's faking and who's not.
:typing

But if symptoms were observed before this incident happened, she should have been assessed in an inpatient treatment facility.

I agree that the patient doesn't always know. I know someone who was given an intervention by friends for admission to a facility for mania. While IN the facility he ordered used cars over the phone using his credit card! And it was clear he had delusions that he was able to "leap tall buildings" so to speak.

To this day he resents the people who "had it in for him" - and doesn't believe he has anything but depression. He does take the MEDS for bipolar but had recently weaned himself down, and got sick again.

Is it his FAULT? Can they just keep him locked up? Can they monitor his every move?

Tough tough call.

Liddle Noodnik · Jun 30, 2006

?????
Okay, I'm struggling with this. Only a physician can diagnose someone with mental illness and if they believe someone to be faking, all they need to do is say so.

... except that in court, it's not the doc who DECIDES that ... and one can always find a doc with an opposite opinion, present it well, and voilà... Anyone see that 1987 Barbra Streisand movie, "Nuts"?

IMustBeCrazy · Jun 30, 2006

True, but that's assuming that they are, in fact, mentally ill. You CAN also fake mental illness. Talk to any doctor in a criminal psych facility, and they will tell you that up to a third of the patients who are in there are fakers who really belong in prison. There's a reason that malingering is such a common problem.
My point is: as long as you can fake a mental illness, and the doctors can be fooled then, we will always have this debate. Because even the doctors can't always accurately determine who's faking and who's not.

That is true, but generally, those that 'get by' with doing that have to be smart enough to fool MANY psychiatrists, not just one. It also begs the question as to what the secondary gains are in receiving this diagnosis? Have you ever set foot in a forensic psych facility? I have to laugh a little, if they actually think that experience will be better than a 'normal' prison. If you have spent any time around forensic psych patients, you would WANT to go to a normal prison.

Another point that is being missed is that Andrea was RESPONDING to psychtropic medication. I can just about guarantee that if you are faking a diagnosis and get a shot of Haldol, you would most likely be a drooling idiot sitting in a corner somewhere. These are powerful medications, not meant to be used by people that don't need them.

Sheri257 · Jun 30, 2006

Have you ever set foot in a forensic psych facility? I have to laugh a little, if they actually think that experience will be better than a 'normal' prison. If you have spent any time around forensic psych patients, you would WANT to go to a normal prison.

Yes, I've been in a forensic psych facility. Maybe the one you're familar with is different from the one I've been in but ... it beat prison by leaps and bounds. For one thing, you're not shackled. You're not locked up in a cell for 23 out of 24 hours a day. You get to walk around, watch TV pretty much any time you want to. They had grounds privileges so they got to garden, swim in a pool, etc. It's a much better deal and the reason why they had so many fakers.

Another point that is being missed is that Andrea was RESPONDING to psychtropic medication. I can just about guarantee that if you are faking a diagnosis and get a shot of Haldol, you would most likely be a drooling idiot sitting in a corner somewhere. These are powerful medications, not meant to be used by people that don't need them.

First of all, I'm not saying Andrea is faking. I really don't know. My overall point is that you usually can't prove mental illness like you can prove diabetes. So, there's always going to be this debate and questions about the validity of the condition, especially when there's a crime involved.

As far as the Haldol, Andrea was also non-compliant with her medication. So that gets back to issues about personal responsibility, etc.

:typing

fergus51 · Jun 30, 2006

I can't believe anyone would think this woman was faking. I can't feel anger for someone who clearly didn't know what she was doing.

IMustBeCrazy · Jun 30, 2006

Hmm...it seems like you are describing a 'state mental facility' more than a forensic psych facility. There are different levels of care/institutions. I would be surprised if violent or homicidally delusional psych offenders are left to roam around campus ad lib.

Regarding non-compliance, most of the psych patients I have worked with have been non-compliant at some point with their medications. No different than a heart patient not taking their Atenolol. Patients have choices, psych patients are no different.

IMustBeCrazy · Jun 30, 2006

One more thought.

If a psych patient is proven in court to be harmful to themselves or others, or they don't have adequate cognition to understand why they need medication, they can be court ordered to take medications. If they don't take them PO, they can get an involuntary shot once every other week, etc. They can also be put on community programs whereby someone makes a daily housecall to ensure they are taking meds/safe etc. This is the extreme end of the spectrum, reserved only for those that are habitually non-compliant and dangerous.

RENAISSANCE RN · Jun 30, 2006

she is guilty.... I am not sure if she is insane... But her husband should be in jail as well.... God take care of those kids. What a waste of life.

Ps. MD's, postal workers, teachers, and everyone has the capacity to go crazy not just nurses.....

PANurseRN1 · Jun 30, 2006

What does her being a nurse have to do with anything? :angryfire

PANurseRN1 · Jun 30, 2006

i would even venture to say that if she was taking anti-psychotics before her pregnancy, then this was a long-term ongoing psychiatric problem and not anything postpartum. it might have just been exacerbated by postpartum depression.
however, having said that....i still find what she did reprehensible and she needs to be held fully responsible. i worked on a psych floor. there were patients with severe issues who felt like harming people. they came in and got help because they recognized that there was an issue. they didnt end up killing anyone.

That's like saying there is no excuse for a diabetic person having a crisis because you know plenty of diabetics who keep their glucose levels under control.

SmilingBluEyes · Jun 30, 2006

this is clearly a hot topic of debate and discussion. i will ask all members to kindly be mindful of the sensitivity of the subject matter , remain respectful of each other as we post and in particular, and keep war/political arguments out of this discussion.

please, respectfully try to keep posts germane to the original topic and if the subject matter has you very heated up, really think before hitting the "post reply" button!

thank you.