ANA rec BSN vs ASN

Trauma Columnist · Jun 14, 2005

In one of my recent courses, we had a debate about joining the ANA. In Illinois, however dues are $584 per year! To me, that is outrageous and way out of place for RNs who make $17/hour for new grads. When you compare this to the Emergency Nurses Association (who also lobby in Congress) who charge $90/year - the money has to be considered, at least for me.

goingCOASTAL · Jun 14, 2005

Thanks Deb. I knew it was out there, and even quoted them in a statistics paper about the dreadful study that BSNs are safer than ADNs, but was to lazy to go find it and post it. :)

I remember a debate I had several years ago with a BSN who thought anything less was incompetent and a danger to patients. She was from my home state, and didn't respond after I posted the statitics from my own board of nursing that proved our ADNs had a better pass rate on the boards than the BSNs.

I don't have anything against BSN nurses, the few at my current place of employment are friends. What does peeve me is the occasional arrogance that seems to be of a greater measure than the additional year of nursing school might indicate -- which often makes me want to reply, "Oh, so you must have your DSN?"

I've thought about going back for mine, but I've never worked anywhere where there was a financial incentive to do so, and I have no desire to "climb the corporate ladder" (tried that a few times, didn't care for the BS). For me, "bedside" is nursing, and there's no shame to it. I applaud the efforts to improve our career, but the aura of transcendence among a few who have increased their education can be quite nauseating at times (not to mention laughable -- can you puke and laugh at the same time?).

SmilingBluEyes · Jun 14, 2005

I resigned ANA membership myself for many of the reasons already stated. I don't think they DO act in my best interests as an ADN nurse----or even as a nurse in general. The final blow, however was when AJN took a thread of this site and blew it out of proportion for sensational article-writing in their journal. I really took strong exception to that. I did not renew it.

That is all I will say about ANA. I may revise my decisions when and if their stance against AD and diploma nurses changes. I am waiting for the apology for blowing the thread out of proportion, but not holding my breath certainly.

I am like Tweety; planning to pursue further education for my own betterment, not because some flawed lie of a study tells me BSN -only care is safer.

SmilingBluEyes · Jun 14, 2005

Labor unions exist simply to promote mediocrity and keep the lazy and incompetent employed.

And yes, the union that "represents" me knows exactly how I feel about them and every other union!

Chip

You just insulted a lot of nurses with this statement. I have worked in two labor-unionized hospitals where the care was ANYTHING BUT mediocre or substandard. Generalizations have NO place in intelligent dialogue.

Mystery5 · Jun 14, 2005

Well, I said unions are a two-edged sword, because the reason they exist is in response to management that is all too eager to exploit workers for all they're worth. So, the unions move in, we pay them 'protection money', they use it to promote their own agendas, some of them living like fat cats, with expense accounts and plenty of staff. They get a closed shop imposed, milking the poor worker for as much as they can, and show up once a year for some stupid promotional brunch to tell you all the great things they are doing.

I get two nursing journals, the AJN and Nursing 2005. The AJN has an obvious political agenda that constantly crops up t/o the magazine. Now, I get irritated by that. I make my own decisions on voting and am not going to be told how to vote by a union, my church, or any other entity. I resent the AJN not showing more journalist neutrality regarding controversial issues, such as abortion, fetal cell research, United Nations actions, etc... Nursing 2005 is full of helpful articles without that sort of irritating stuff.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jun 14, 2005

I think that we need to acknowledge that the ANA has a political agenda. Just as the California one does, in their constant battles with the governor. That is a big turnoff obviously for some people. But there are health care/nursing issues that need lobbying. I guess the problem comes when the wide variety of nurses around the country feel disenfranchised by the polictics that don't jive with their own. But that they are a political lobby, involved in politics should be understood from the get go.

I'm an ADN nurse and advocate for my degree because it was hard earned, and thorough. But I don't feel that those advocating for the BSN to be the entry level as being "against ADNs" or saying ADNs are inferior. Maybe I'm being too superficial. Or maybe because I decided to get my BSN. But I feel no feelings of inadequacy or the ANA making me feel inadequate because they advocate for the BSN. There are always going to be those with higher and lesser degrees than myself in nursing. But I will always be a nurse.

I don't have a BSN, and if the BSN suddenly becomes the requirement for an RN, I won't be an RN, but there will still be a place for me as a valuable member of the nursing profression, of that I'm sure.

I guess this is not the deciding factor for me on whether or not I will join the ANA, which I haven't done yet, or don't really plan on it right now. But I'm seriously considering it, or another organization.

(Coastal, I've had my fair share of arrogance related to degrees, and that's another thread. :rotfl: )

Ex130Load · Jun 14, 2005

Labor unions exist simply to promote mediocrity and keep the lazy and incompetent employed.

Chip

Chip's statement was sweeping and all-inclusive. I can understand why some would take offence I would have said, from first-hand observations and conversations with friends/ acquaintances in unions or who supervise union workers that unions tend to foster mediocrity and protect the lazy and incompetent.

BamaBound2bRN · Jun 14, 2005

Actually........unions exist only to make money off of the dues of its members!! :angryfire

SmilingBluEyes · Jun 14, 2005

Actually........unions exist only to make money off of the dues of its members!! :angryfire

actually you are quite wrong. the union improved the working conditions and pay VASTLY in my hospital. Have you any experience as a nurse or union worker? Or are you just making yet another sweeping, unfounded generalization?

BamaBound2bRN · Jun 14, 2005

My statement comes from 16 years of working in union facilities and as a Shop Steward and even a Local President. During the late 1800's and early 1900's Unions were extremely helpful in establishing Worker Right's that we now take for granted, like, Overtime Pay, OSHA, Minimum Wage, and Child Labor laws. And I will agree that some local unions do good by their workers. However, one only needs to look at companies like United, GM, Monsanto/Solutia, and other heavy union companies and the plight of their pension plans to see that unions for the most part are only concerned with collecting dues.

SmilingBluEyes · Jun 14, 2005

Not all unions are created equally.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jun 14, 2005

Unions have lost a lot of ground during the recessions of the 70s and on up until now. Sometimes it must seem like all you're doing is paying dues while the corporation just takes and takes and takes.

I agree Deb, as there always seems to be a nursing strike somewhere, all nursing unions aren't created equally. But we have the power because there's not a recession in nursing, and not many people lined up to replace us, like say the auto industry.

Take it with a grain of salt as I work in a nonunion hospital.