ANA rec BSN vs ASN

Mystery5 · Jun 13, 2005

I think unions are two edged swords. The ANA, like many unions, supports some liberal social causes with union money. Also, they like to get in facilities and impose a closed shop, and force everyone to join. The ANA is obviously pro-choice, as I can easily glean from reading the AJN, which I get because I'm forced to be a part of the WSNA (Washington State Nurses Assoc.)in order to keep my job. In any other realm of life that would be called extortion, I believe.

Just my opinion, which I don't share at work, btw...

Jamesdotter · Jun 14, 2005

I'm forced to be a part of the WSNA (Washington State Nurses Assoc.)in order to keep my job

In my hospital (in Oregon) one of my colleagues, who was SDA, was able to have her "union dues" sent to her favorite charity because, I guess, unions were against her religious beliefs. They still took the money out, but she was able to direct it. She did have to keep a close eye on the payroll dept to be sure the money went where she said for it to go.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jun 14, 2005

Why should I support a group who basically thinks that that I am too underqualified and undereducated to be a good nurse?" Because all rhetoric about being pro-nurse aside, that's what they mean..
What do you think?

On this forum, I've read that some ADN graduates are interpreting it as a put down, so I understand where you're coming from.

I choose not to look at it that way, becuase I don't think they are saying we're not good nurses.

Advocates for the BSN as the entry level for RN status doesn't bother me as an AD Nurse. I understand and somewhat support that effort. There are many details and practicalities to be ironed out, so it's not going to happen anyway.

Why not join the association for ADN nurses and be an ADN adovocate. We need those as well.

elizabells, BSN, RN · Jun 14, 2005

I don't know much about ANA per se, but even my ultra-anti ADN seeming prof (about whom you may have read on other threads) doesn't like the organization in general. Maybe she's just anti-union more than anti-ADN.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jun 14, 2005

More people, particularly conservatives are angry at the ANA for their stance on Terri Shaivo and their endorsements of political candidates, than the ADN vs. BSN issue, I'm guessing.

goingCOASTAL · Jun 14, 2005

I think the original poster was referring to the BSN-bias of the American Nurses Association (the national org), and not the state branches -- some of which have divorced themselves from the national group and turned into unions. The ANA is not a union, though such state groups, like the California Nurses Association are.

I think making a BSN requirement for the field is a nice future goal, and I think that the ANA is short-sided by promoting it during a time when we face a national nursing shortage, and when so many nurses aren't BSN prepared. It gets that "bias" label because the group, for some reason, is more focused on its own priorities, and not on the needs of current nurses and the problems with healthcare (which is why the CNA broke away).

We do need a national org that focuses on "nursing" in general, and is FOR, BY, and OF the nursing population. The ANA has failed at that, and as such does not appeal, with degree of success, to the people it purports to represent.

On the separate union matter, if you don't like 'em, find a job that allows you to negotiate with the corporate bosses directly. I live in a very large state with zero unionized hospitals, and I know from my ten years of experience that your only "choices" in dealing with management is whether you'll pick up your paycheck on Thursday, or use direct deposit. If you have a problem with anything else, then their attitude is "don't let the door hit you in the behind." No recourse, no voice. But, apparently that appeals to some people.

SmilingBluEyes · Jun 14, 2005

On this forum, I've read that some ADN graduates are interpreting it as a put down, so I understand where you're coming from.
I choose not to look at it that way, becuase I don't think they are saying we're not good nurses.
Advocates for the BSN as the entry level for RN status doesn't bother me as an AD Nurse. I understand and somewhat support that effort. There are many details and practicalities to be ironed out, so it's not going to happen anyway.
Why not join the association for ADN nurses and be an ADN adovocate. We need those as well.

such an organization does exist and I recommend AD nurses at least check it out:

http://www.noadn.org

chip193 · Jun 14, 2005

I think unions are two edged swords. The ANA, like many unions, supports some liberal social causes with union money. Also, they like to get in facilities and impose a closed shop, and force everyone to join. The ANA is obviously pro-choice, as I can easily glean from reading the AJN, which I get because I'm forced to be a part of the WSNA (Washington State Nurses Assoc.)in order to keep my job. In any other realm of life that would be called extortion, I believe.
Just my opinion, which I don't share at work, btw...

Labor unions exist simply to promote mediocrity and keep the lazy and incompetent employed.

And yes, the union that "represents" me knows exactly how I feel about them and every other union!

Chip

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jun 14, 2005

such an organization does exist and I recommend AD nurses at least check it out:
http://www.noadn.org

Thanks Deb. I knew it was out there, and even quoted them in a statistics paper about the dreadful study that BSNs are safer than ADNs, but was to lazy to go find it and post it. :)

fab4fan · Jun 14, 2005

I have similar feelings about the ANA; they are too focused on their own political agendas than what nurses really need now. If I have to hear one more time about "safe needle/needlestick prevention" blah, blah, blah as an example of how the ANA helped all nurses, I think I will be sick. Please...that started as a grassroots effort by nurses who were injured by needlesticks and contracted hep/HIV. The ANA jumped on the bandwagon after it became a hot topic,and now they try to use it to their advantage.

Interesting that they come around with hat in hand to diploma/ADNs, wanting us to join, only to then publish papers/statements that BSNs are the "true" professional nurses. And since they call themselves the "American Nurses' Assn.," how do they explain the exclusion of LPNs? Are they not nurses also?

My experience with them? Forked over lots of money for dues, got bupkus in return (other than the constant reminder that as a diploma grad, I am inferior in their eyes).

And having read several articles about what happened in IL (or was it IN...I am blanking on which state it was at the moment), the SNA there was not above playing dirty pool in order to block nurses from breaking off membership in order to obtain other representation.

TypicalFish · Jun 14, 2005

Labor unions exist simply to promote mediocrity and keep the lazy and incompetent employed.
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I have to say that I find this remark incredibly insulting. My dh is a Master Plumber with 25 years' experience; people who he has done work for years(and years) ago still track him down to do more work for them; In the largest teaching hospital in the area, he is the only person they want handling the medical gas. He had to pass three rigorous practical and written tests to get his MP licensure. He works in power plants, handling high pressure steam, A national bank chain requests him and only him for tenant work in all of their tri-state branches-they actually wait until he is free to do the work for them. He continues to take classes to better himself and increase his skills. He works sometimes 70-80 hours a week-so I wouldn't have to work while in nursing school. He is neither mediocre nor inept nor lazy. He is in a union.
When you make sweeping generalizations you just show that you simplify things to make the facts fit your opinion; you don't bother trying to find out if you opinion is flawed in any way. I'd have to wonder about your critical thinking skills.