Am I a bully?

[haron54]

I was written up and was fired for this. I was charge doing three different tasks at the same time at 1200. A RN comes up to me and says I' m so busy.I looked up from the discharge paper I was working on and said "that's too bad you are so busy , staff should be returning from lunch soon". So I'm being told saying "that's too bad "was a bulling remark.I thought it was just feedback.Also that I refused to help her now sure how her saying "I'm so busy "was a request for help.I also was busy doing discharge paperwork and watching telemetry and answering the phone.Was I a bully?

[Julius Seizure]

In my 20 years of charge nurse duties, on the front lines... I never made a wrong call.

Come on, BTDT, you can't really believe that your judgement was consistently perfect for 20 years straight. I respect you a lot. Don't ruin this for me!

[roser13, ASN, RN]

Stupid is as stupid does.

[NotYourMamasRN]

I realize it is difficult for a nurse with 5 years of experience to comprehend the knowledge base and depth of experience a nurse gains over 34 years. In my 20 years of charge nurse duties, on the front lines... I never made a wrong call. I knew when any staff nurse was in trouble, before s/he realized it. I knew the situation on all 30 patients on the unit.. watched them and the staff like a hawk.

If a nurse said to me "I'm so busy".. I would know what s/he was busy with... with or without "inquisitive" questions. I knew what was going on,and supported each and every one when they truly needed leadership.

I find it hilarious that you support your impressions with footnotes... from some article written by someone that has never schlepped the halls of a chaotic step-down unit. I am not old.. but I am wise.

Can we get back to the OP's issue now?

Several points to make based on your reply.

1) This "footnote" is actually from a scholarly reference and is a piece of a concept analysis on "Wisdom" in nursing.

Toward an Understanding of Wisdom in Nursing.

Authors:

Matney, Susan A.; Avant, Kay; Staggers, Nancy

Affiliation:

University of Utah College Of Nursing, Salt Lake City, UT

Roger L. and Laura D. Zeller Distinguished Professor of Nursing, University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio, Texas

Source:

Online Journal of Issues in Nursing (ONLINE J ISSUES NURS), Jan2016; 21(1): 7-7. (1p)

Publication Type:

Article

Language:

English

Major Subjects:

Nursing Knowledge

Models, Theoretical

Nursing Theory

Minor Subjects:

Literature; Concept Analysis; Paradigms; Psychology; Conceptual Framework; Work Experiences; Life Experiences

Journal Subset:

Core Nursing; Double Blind Peer Reviewed; Editorial Board Reviewed; Expert Peer Reviewed; Nursing; Peer Reviewed; USA

ISSN:

1091-3734

MEDLINE Info:

NLM UID: 9806525

Entry Date:

20160120

Revision Date:

20160127

DOI:

Error: DOI Not Found

Accession Number:

112345105

Database:

CINAHL Plus with Full Text

2) As someone with an undergraduate degree in management, 5 years of military service, 8 years in business, management, HRM, and project management, and 5 years of nursing I feel I am pretty well qualified to discuss management roles and leadership qualities. My graduate education has also helped me to view the wider scope of nursing practice and my background has helped me to develop ideas, thoughts, and views on the profession.

I do realize that for a person with 34 years of experience in anything, it might be hard to comprehend newer philosophies and theories in organization, management, and leadership with solid research backing up such principles. I also realize it could be difficult to have enough emotional intelligence to not be prideful or boastful of oneself and to state in a public forum that one has never made a wrong call. I also realize that it might be difficult for someone to recognize "footnotes" from peer reviewed articles might have some validity and could contribute to the direction and the evolution of the profession of nursing. I totally get it.

3) I also totally understand that you would think your ranking of 33 years of nursing practice might allow you to come on this public forum and talk down to or berate nurses with less experience in nursing, even when some of those nurses are proven professionals in other fields. It is ok, I get it. I don't take it personally. But one thing you should recognize, aside from your superiority complex as both an experienced nurse and someone who has never made a wrong call, is that it is ok for other professionals to have differing opinions and different thought processes. It is ok for people to come into this profession with different backgrounds and challenge the status quo. Change is a good thing. Nursing in it's current state is unsustainable and in need of drastic change, the ways of the past will not work for the future.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

In 20 years this was my first write up about the discharges.I said it was stupid to think the charge nurse could do all the discharges. No verbal warnings . No private conversations.no follow up for the write up in Feb. I was told not to file a grievance in Feb by HR. The grievance process is a joke.I send my grievance to the same person who wrote me up. No there is nothing in policy regarding coming into the hospital . I am a RN.

Wait.

If this was your first write up, and you did a grievance process, couldn't you go higher up to file the said grievance or put it into an arbitrator's hands if possible?

[Wake88, BSN, RN]

3) I also totally understand that you would think your ranking of 33 years of nursing practice might allow you to come on this public forum and talk down to or berate nurses with less experience in nursing, even when some of those nurses are proven professionals in other fields. It is ok, I get it. I don't take it personally. But one thing you should recognize, aside from your superiority complex as both an experienced nurse and someone who has never made a wrong call, is that it is ok for other professionals to have differing opinions and different thought processes. It is ok for people to come into this profession with different backgrounds and challenge the status quo. Change is a good thing. Nursing in it's current state is unsustainable and in need of drastic change, the ways of the past will not work for the future.

Agreed. I get sick of this condescending attitude which typically comes from a superiority complex.

I'm not lying when I say I've seen this again and again on this site from certain people.

This is a good website. This condescension towards other people sucks, though. I haven't encountered it on other sites as much as here. It sucks when people talk down to you, whether it's nurse to nurse, or nurse to nurse aide. It gets annoying because it's childish, and people should know better.

[NotYourMamasRN]

I don't understand why people have to be like that especially when it's on the open forums for all to see.

You'd think someone with decades of experience in nursing would know better and set the example.

I agree. Thankfully there are a lot of great people on this website that offer valuable advice and set a better example.

[murseomatic]

Wait... What were you suspended for? Was it related to this particular situation, or? Unless there was a serious infraction committed (theft, abuse, drugs, etc) I don't see how anyone could get suspended without some sort of prior warning. Not trying to be a busy-body... But something stinks in the hopper room.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

I was a charge nurse for 20 years and received a leadership award from a huge health system.

Just a side note.. when the charge nurse is "busy doing discharge paperwork and watching telemetry and answering the phone ".. what exactly.. could snowflake expect mother charge nurse to do?

OP acknowledged snowflake's statement, informed her she would direct help from the returning crew. Snowflake did not say she was drowning... she said she was busy. Aren't we all? Any time I was assigned to monitor telemetry.. I could NOT leave the monitors.

OP is not guilty of "unacceptable practice and deplorable leadership". OP was dealing.

I agree. But it doesn't sound like she gave any encouragement or expressed any concern for the other nurse. Maybe it was her lack of any expression of sympathy or lack of exploring the other's concern a little bit, or the way she said what she did say.

OP, good luck, try to be more kind to the overwhelmed, and don't express that your manager's ideas are stupid. You know that already, I know. Hey, good luck. You will be alright.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

Several points to make based on your reply.

1) This "footnote" is actually from a scholarly reference and is a piece of a concept analysis on "Wisdom" in nursing.

Toward an Understanding of Wisdom in Nursing.

Authors:

Matney, Susan A.; Avant, Kay; Staggers, Nancy

Affiliation:

University of Utah College Of Nursing, Salt Lake City, UT

Roger L. and Laura D. Zeller Distinguished Professor of Nursing, University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio, Texas

Source:

Online Journal of Issues in Nursing (ONLINE J ISSUES NURS), Jan2016; 21(1): 7-7. (1p)

Publication Type:

Article

Language:

English

Major Subjects:

Nursing Knowledge

Models, Theoretical

Nursing Theory

Minor Subjects:

Literature; Concept Analysis; Paradigms; Psychology; Conceptual Framework; Work Experiences; Life Experiences

Journal Subset:

Core Nursing; Double Blind Peer Reviewed; Editorial Board Reviewed; Expert Peer Reviewed; Nursing; Peer Reviewed; USA

ISSN:

1091-3734

MEDLINE Info:

NLM UID: 9806525

Entry Date:

20160120

Revision Date:

20160127

DOI:

Error: DOI Not Found

Accession Number:

112345105

Database:

CINAHL Plus with Full Text

2) As someone with an undergraduate degree in management, 5 years of military service, 8 years in business, management, HRM, and project management, and 5 years of nursing I feel I am pretty well qualified to discuss management roles and leadership qualities. My graduate education has also helped me to view the wider scope of nursing practice and my background has helped me to develop ideas, thoughts, and views on the profession.

I do realize that for a person with 34 years of experience in anything, it might be hard to comprehend newer philosophies and theories in organization, management, and leadership with solid research backing up such principles. I also realize it could be difficult to have enough emotional intelligence to not be prideful or boastful of oneself and to state in a public forum that one has never made a wrong call. I also realize that it might be difficult for someone to recognize "footnotes" from peer reviewed articles might have some validity and could contribute to the direction and the evolution of the profession of nursing. I totally get it.

3) I also totally understand that you would think your ranking of 33 years of nursing practice might allow you to come on this public forum and talk down to or berate nurses with less experience in nursing, even when some of those nurses are proven professionals in other fields. It is ok, I get it. I don't take it personally. But one thing you should recognize, aside from your superiority complex as both an experienced nurse and someone who has never made a wrong call, is that it is ok for other professionals to have differing opinions and different thought processes. It is ok for people to come into this profession with different backgrounds and challenge the status quo. Change is a good thing. Nursing in it's current state is unsustainable and in need of drastic change, the ways of the past will not work for the future.

Change is not always good.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

I disagree and think that there is a lot more to the situation than what is being described for the situation to result in termination. I also think that your reference of "snowflake" for the nurse who was asking for help is a reflection of the consistent issues plaguing professional practice.

Anyone can win an award and time in service in any one job does not necessarily make you a subject matter expert. There is quit a bit of litigation against nurses who had a wealth of experience but made poor decisions. So while I respect any nurse achieving a high status, getting a higher level degree, or receiving awards, I don't see the merit in mentioning that in this discussion.

A foundation of leadership is communication style, even when under pressure. When I served in the military during OIF I can recall a time when a JDAM fell off of one of our jets, this is live ordinance, and landed on the hand of one of the guys in my command. This became a live ordinance issue on-board a flight deck that could have killed 5,000 of us on the ship and there was someone with their hand stuck under it. The Chief who was up there was trying to coordinate getting the hand of his man out from under a bomb, a possibly deadly situation for everyone standing there. One of the new guys in the command came up to him during this event and asked a totally erroneous question about a jet on the other side of the flight deck and that Chief answered him and gave him guidance, then got back to the situation at hand (No pun intended). The new E2 mentioned this when we did a safety stand down and talked about the fact that the Chief who was dealing with such a dangerous situation was able to give him direction and not bite his head off for not realizing the severity of what he was dealing with. This was part of what earned that Chief a NAM which is a level of recognition in the Navy and Marine Corps.

The reason I bring up that story is because I think that more transformational leadership is needed in nursing. I think that how leaders communicate to their people, how they read their people, and how they help their people is a reflection of their leadership abilities. I think that as the leader, the charge nurse is responsible for asking inquisitive questions like, "Are you ok?", "Do you need help?", etc. I think that if this charge had asked those questions and noted what was most likely a look of depravity on the nurse, rather than just writing her off the situation might have gone differently. Isn't that what we do a nurses all day? We walk into a room, we see a patient and can tell something isn't right, we ask questions, we take note of subjective findings, then we take action. I find it incredibly hard to believe that a nurse would be fired for simply the situation as is described.

"Wisdom is assumed to be intrinsically associated with age and experience [but] age is not necessarily a factor in being a wise nurse. Wisdom is assumed to be intrinsically associated with age and experience. Although older people have more experiences, age is not the only characteristic associated with wisdom. Pasupathi (2001) has posited that those who are "open to new experiences, are creative, who think about the how and why of an event rather than simply whether it is good or bad, who demonstrate more social intelligence, or who are oriented towards personal growth display higher levels of wisdom-related knowledge and judgment" (p. 403). This is important for nursing because it means that age is not necessarily a factor in being a wise nurse."

Please interpret. JDAM NAM OIF Thanks Good example you gave.

[NotYourMamasRN]

Please interpret. JDAM NAM OIF Thanks Good example you gave.

Thank you. JDAM is Joint Defense Attack Munition, and it is an air to ground bomb that we dropped from the F-14 Tomcat at that time. It is still in use. It is a very accurate weapon and can use GPS coordinates to hit precise locations. It is 2,000 lbs if I remember correctly, so dropping this on anyones body part is a BIG deal.

NAM is Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal. We give this out to people when they are recommended for the award and get through a board of their leadership to receive it. It is a mid level award for doing great work. Definitely higher than a simple service medal, definitely lower than a purple heart.

OIF is Operation Iraqi Freedom. I joined the military after 9/11 and served during OIF and OEF (Operation Enduring Freedom). I got my expeditionary medal meaning I was deployed to a combat zone during a time of war.

[NotYourMamasRN]

Change is not always good.

I will agree, not always.