This is a spawn of the spanking alternative thread. I'm curious about what my buddies here would do in an on-going situation that involves my distant in-laws.
First and foremost, let me say, I have no children. I am a new-grad NP, and I am completing my FNP certification. I'll be done in August. I currently am awaiting licensure as an ACNP. I wanted to wait till school was over till I had any rugrats. That does not mean that I have not had a hand in raising a few (my cousins) and also does not mean that I do not know a discipline problem when I see it.
Anyone who's read my threads knows how I feel about my MIL (bipolar and unmedicated), and they also know about my DH (a bit of a sexist with a part-time God complex, but I love him dearly). Since this is his family, I truly try and stay out of it. However, as these boys get older, and the discipline does not come, I can see the handwriting on the wall.
The youngest is not so bad, he's a sweetie, but the eldest has been a hellion from the word go. The father will not work, will not help with the kids, and walks around with a constant pained expression. The Mama tries, but she is the sole breadwinner, and she does not discipline the boys, either. Case in point, this past Thanksgiving, the boy spilled his soda all over MIL's new carpet (after being told repeatedly NOT to go in the living room with his drink). Mama and I scrambled around like mad mopping up, and the father never lifted a finger. I have no idea what goes on at their house, but I do know that at one point a couple years back, this boy RAN OVER his little brother with a Gator, and the little one required some extensive medical intervention. I don't even recall him being spanked or spoken to about that.
Christmas comes, and we all traipse to my MIL's mother's house. There, the kids all open several gifts each, and then the grown-ups play a game. Well, this year, the boy tramped 2 pieces of gum and an orange slice into the new carpet inside of 5 minutes. He then spilled yet another drink, ran wild, slamming into various adults, told his grandmother what they had gotten her for Christmas, and threw a fit over not getting to be the first to play with it. Meanwhile, father is ignoring him and treating me to a barrage of lame jokes about my wearing a shirt in favor of a different football team than the rest of the family. After picking up the boy for the umpteenth time, I jokingly asked if he would like to be buried up to his neck in an anthill. Compared to his mother threatening to throw him in the street with a "boot in his butt", it was all in fun, but father immediately pounced and told me that I did not need to have children. The night wore on, the present was opened, the boy tried to wrestle the controller away from whoever was playing and when he could not, he would lay in the floor so that they would have to step over him. During the adult game, he insisted that he was playing, and would write numbers on paper (we fdraw to determine order) and try to open the adult's gifts, despite being told not to.
My question is: Everyone was telling this child, get up, get out of the way, do not bother that, etc. Including me. The Mama was as well, but she would not do anything about him. So, DH decides he is ready to leave, and proceeds to berate me about my part in the whole affair, and say I should "be glad he rescued me before someone put me in my place.". That I should not say anything because, "I am not a member of that family". Then he punctuated it with , "Now you have BOTH sides of your family telling you you don't need children!" I informed him that not only did I not care what that particular man thought, but that, since I was not a member of the family, there was no way that I could have 2 sides telling me ANYTHING. I love logic. Out of all those people, I was the only one that, in his opinion, was not qualified to say anything.
If you see a child at a family gathering acting out and the parents do nothing, do you step in? Do you if others are? What do you do when you join in the seeming fun and it turns into a you-bash? I guess when I have 'em, I'll raise 'em the way I want, but I can not imagine letting my children do those things. Thanks for reading. It's been a bad day.
Sounds like those kids are being emotionally neglected and they're acting out for attention - negative attention is better than nothing, especially if you're starving for some type of social interaction.
I'm sure the soda and candy didn't help the situation either - sugar is energy and filling up a bored child with sugar is sure to equal disaster. The kids were obviously looking for something to do...even if it meant misbehaving, since they apparently do not have any consequences.
However, most of the blame lies in the parents. The child spilled his soda on the new carpet despite being told not to go in the living room? Well, the child should have never been allowed to leave the kitchen with the soda in the first place! The kids don't know any better, and if everyone else was in the living room they obviously wanted to be by them (especially since they are apparently socially deprived).
Its hard to discuss these issues with parents, since most become defensive as it is seen as an attack on their parenting skills. And often when someone does bring up the topic, the parents take it out on the kids ("go to your room", "shut up", "sit in the corner").
If I were you, I'd try to set aside some time to play with the kids at the next holiday gathering. If you can earn their trust, then they'll listen to you. Plus, a nice gift to keep them busy and occupied (such as video games) would be very nice - I'm sure it would keep them quiet for the rest of the night. If you don't want to spend the money on a new system, you could rent a video game system for $20 bucks or so at local video stores (I think that places still rent them...but its been awhile since I've checked prices). Those poor kids have nothing to do with the energy that they have and I'm sure family gatherings provide little stimulation for them - so, they try to find stuff to do on their own (even if their behavior has disasterous consequences). Children don't have enough insight to realize that their behavior right now will have future consequences - which is why their parents should be monitoring their behavior and intervening appropriately.
Kids need boundaries, emotional and intellectual stimulation, and a schedule. I feel badly for these children, since they obviously are acting out because they are missing something in their lives...
Sounds like those kids are being emotionally neglected and they're acting out for attention - negative attention is better than nothing, especially if you're starving for some type of social interaction.
I'm sure the soda and candy didn't help the situation either - sugar is energy and filling up a bored child with sugar is sure to equal disaster. The kids were obviously looking for something to do...even if it meant misbehaving, since they apparently do not have any consequences.
However, most of the blame lies in the parents. The child spilled his soda on the new carpet despite being told not to go in the living room? Well, the child should have never been allowed to leave the kitchen with the soda in the first place! The kids don't know any better, and if everyone else was in the living room they obviously wanted to be by them (especially since they are apparently socially deprived).
Its hard to discuss these issues with parents, since most become defensive as it is seen as an attack on their parenting skills. And often when someone does bring up the topic, the parents take it out on the kids ("go to your room", "shut up", "sit in the corner").
If I were you, I'd try to set aside some time to play with the kids at the next holiday gathering. If you can earn their trust, then they'll listen to you. Plus, a nice gift to keep them busy and occupied (such as video games) would be very nice - I'm sure it would keep them quiet for the rest of the night. If you don't want to spend the money on a new system, you could rent a video game system for $20 bucks or so at local video stores (I think that places still rent them...but its been awhile since I've checked prices). Those poor kids have nothing to do with the energy that they have and I'm sure family gatherings provide little stimulation for them - so, they try to find stuff to do on their own (even if their behavior has disasterous consequences). Children don't have enough insight to realize that their behavior right now will have future consequences - which is why their parents should be monitoring their behavior and intervening appropriately.
Kids need boundaries, emotional and intellectual stimulation, and a schedule. I feel badly for these children, since they obviously are acting out because they are missing something in their lives...
I agree with you. Kids need boundries. I don't agree with spanking and I think that it is not needed when disciplining children. To be honest, parents teach their kids not to hit others but then turn around and hit their children for some sort of infraction. It's negative reinforcement. I think there are better ways to dscipline children than spanking.
I'm a first time mother. My parents can discipline my daughter. My younger sister has made comments about wanting to spank my daughter and honestly it makes me mad! She hasn't raised kids herself. My daughter is 13 months old and alot of things she does is normal 13 month old stuff. My parents have raised 3 children just fine so I trust them. My sister on the other hand is only 16 and lets her emotions get the best of her. I guess it would depend on the situation of how angry I'd get at someone disciplining my child.
i've had a 'few' encounters w/hubbies family/siblings, and he comes from a large family.
i've offered my .02 with the kids gone wild, with horrible medical care my mil received, with certain siblings telling their mother to "shut up"...
oh my, there is just not anyway i could keep my mouth closed.
and siblings did not hold back, in attacking me all at once...telling me to mind my own business, who the hell are you, eddie-do something w/your wife...:chuckle
and ea time, i have told them loud and clear, "ea and every one of you people SUCK!!"
they just don't know what to do with me.
and if/when i go over there for a family get-together, they all now either look at me with contempt or, treat me respectfully.
but they also know that no one or nothing is going to keep my temper in check or my mouth shut.
what i'm saying angel, is do not give a rat's patootie what others may think.
if you feel justified and righteous, then say what needs to be said (whether it's to a child, inlaw or stranger)
and leave the rest behind.
when you really don't care what others may think, you maintain control and no one can influence you any differently.
Specializes in LTC, CPR instructor, First aid instructor..
i drove school bus for children from grades 5 thru 12, all on the same bus for 15 years. this bus was one that held 66 passengers.
i quickly learned that yelling does not work. the kids turn a deaf ear to it.
after several events of being frustrated, exhausted, and just plain angry, i decided to take a different approach that made me one of my boss' favorite employees. i used child psychology. for example:
1. a middle school student who was known for getting kids riled up so bad on the bus the bus driver would quit. one morning after arriving at the elementary school and waiting for the school doors to open, this particular student walked up to me and handed me a condom, thinking i would freak out. instead, i thanked him, placed the condom on the shelf beside me. it killed his thunder, and the bus was quiet until the
school doors opened.
2. this student was known for getting the bus disrupted all the time. he was one of the high school students who would create farts, getting the kids to laugh, and causing a reaction from me, but i just sat there pretending not to smell it.
when that didn't work, and knowing he was one of the first students i picked up at home mornings, i asked him if he would like to ride in the back seat. he quickly with an enthusic yes. :nuke:
about a couple months later, he asked me if he could move closer to the front. by then he knew i had isolated him from his friends, and couldn't create such a reaction anymore. i told him he made his choice, and he remained in that seat for the rest of the school year.
3. this was an elementary school student whose father was a former employee. he fractured his wrist one morning when the steering wheel whirrled in the reverse direction after he turned the bus in the direction he wanted it to go.
he said it caught him by surprise, and caught his wrist, fracturing it. he sued the bus company and the school.
this kid was only 5 years old and would get out of his seat,:lol_hitti pinch, hit, or pull hair on other students, all while the bus was moving.
after reporting him several times, and seeing i got no results, i took matters into my own hands, and asked him if he would like to sit toward the back with a senior. :up:he eagerly replied in the affirmative. i told him he would always have to sit next to the window though, but he agreed anyway. end result: no more problems with him. the senior kept him in his place.
so you see, we just have to think one the way they would and then go one step further. that solves a lot of problems.
Ugh. I've been around plenty of situations like these.
Whether or not I step in and say anything really depends on how comfortable I am with the family in question. In the situation you were in, I think you handled it much more nicely than most would! The way I see it, if people aren't willing to step in and keep their children from behaving like brats, then they should expect something to be said.
Sadly, it seems like kids are about 50 times more bratty than they were when I was one, and I'm not even that old.
I am not a big fan of others spanking my kids,cause really if they need discipline thats my job. [ Or it was kids are grown now.] I do think though that if my kids were running wild in someone else's home it would be appropriate for them to say something.
At one family dinner years ago my husbands four year old nephew got under the table at dinner time. mil was saying honey come out from there, pleading with him which of course he ignored . He was allowed to stay there disrupting dinner until he stabbed me with a butter knife , at which time my mil said , "oh he didn't mean it "
At four everyone there was bigger then him someone should of removed him from under the table and put him where he needed to be.
My kids never would have even tried that crap. It would not have been tolerated for a second.
I agree that those kids are being done a grave disservice. Society will unfortunately have to correct these kids later on down the line.
Specializes in med-surg, psych, ER, school nurse-CRNP.
Well, I do appreciate all the thoughtful replies!
DH is at work today, but we have spoken and since I have had a chance to get over the worst of my mad ( I try never to lash out when I'm that angry, it's never a pretty sight and while it makes an impression, my controlled, rational approach does much better). I have gone over a few choice points with him.
1) Since I defend him to my family whenever they may jump on him, be it in his presence or absence, I expect the same from him. He insisted that he did defend me, and I asked him where he was when Dinklepuss was mouthing off. He did not have an answer for that, and I went on to say that whether or not he considered me to be a member of his family ( more on that later), I was still his wife and expected to be treated as such.
2)Since I was "not a member of the family", I was at a loss as to why I had to be subjected to that three-ring circus every year. He replied that I did not. I in turn told him that in years past he had said such things as "Well, I'll just tell them that you don't want to have anything to do with them" or something along the lines if I did not want to attend a gathering. Now, when he does not want to attend a gathering on my side of the family, I never say anything like that. So, citing the history, and brushing off the attempt at him saying that nothing would be said, I told him that, should I decide not to go next year, that I would be either calling or writing his mother and grandmother and informing them of my reasons...namely, their son and grandson saying that I was not considered a family member, just in case he should attempt to say differently. Brother, did that start a rumpus. Heaven forbid that they know what a jackass he can be.
3)The fact that I was a good sport and took every lame joke and putdown from Dinklepuss, only to be blasted for joining in the group discipline. The response I got was that I brought it on myself for wearing a Tennessee shirt. I pointed out that that had no bearing, that DH BOUGHT me the shirt, that I never made fun of their team, and that I was also the only one lambasted.
He did not have an answer for that, except to say that they all know how Dinklepuss is, and that he was trying to keep the peace. Seems there was a big dust-up a few years ago that no one spoke for a while, and he does not want that to happen again. I can understand that, but, as I told him, it will not be at my expense. If everyone else is going to do one thing, I am not going to have a separate rule set by the gospel according to DH. If he can not deal with that, I am more than thrilled to stay home, but I have every intention of making it known why.
I used to try to be nice and go along, but I learned a long time ago to dig in and give what-for, as that is the only thing these morons seen to understand. I can just see them scratching their collective heads ten years from now wondering why the boy blew up that schoolbus full of kids or what-have-you.
Christmas Eve found my husband , son and I at a close friend's home. We had been lovingly invited to be part of their Thanksgiving, and were invited back for Christmas. We love this family and are blessed that they love and care so much for us. Our son is treated like another grandchild. My son is 4, and his best friend is also 4. Both boys were in overdrive, of course. Presents, attention, food etc. However, we had all told them to stop running, slow down, use inside voices, find their manners etc. And finally they were knocking over the 2 year old little girl. So I snapped my fingers, told both of them firmly " No. 2 minute time out for not listening". The entire room went silent as the boys' butts hit the floor. My son is overactive, but he knows when Mom's had enough. And I had had it. I was shocked at myself. It was just gut reaction. I punished my own child and his friend. I was worried I had gone to far, but all that happened was the other boy's father looked at both boys and smiled " Guess you'll both do what your told next time". We all smiled at each other realizing we were all on the same side. The Kid's side! When we tell them to slow down, it's not that we don't want them to have fun, we don't want someone getting hurt, or someone's property getting broken. It was refreshing to see other parents and grandparents thinking along the same lines.
IMHO, what happened to you, should have happened like the above. How dare your husband berate you! I am offended for you! That behavior is totally reprehensible. I find it rather sad that you are the only one looking to the future for this child. He cannot have any chance of normalcy and decency in his life if this is all he's taught.
I applaud your ability to stay calm. I'm afraid I would have had to brush my teeth with dishsoap after I used some @#$%^&* on them!
My mother has a saying " We teach people how to treat us".
If we allow others to degrade and demean us and never stand up for ourselves, we become part of the problem. The parents are teaching those children how to treat others by disassociation and disconnect. I am cautiously thinking that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Your husband must be the one to stand up to them. They'll never listen to you.
First off, let me just say that I am sorry you were spoken to that way. Completely uncalled for.
Your questions:
If you see a child at a family gathering acting out and the parents do nothing, do you step in?If it's my sister's kids (never have experienced this, but hypothetically speaking), I would say something to the kids. If it's my in-law's kids, I would say something to the parents if the child's behavior is disruptive/disrespectful to the adults and nothing is being done about it. I would say something like "Does it ever bother you that Mary doesn't listen to you?" kind of leading in to a conversation. I have two young sons and while they can get rowdy, the type of behavior you described would NEVER be tolerated by me or my husband. The mere fact that your nephews were even behaving that way makes a big statement to me (lack of structure at home?).
What do you do when you join in the seeming fun and it turns into a you-bash?I would say in a 'joking' way, while laughing, (but dead serious)---"Well, if you'd corral your own horses, we wouldn't have to play the role of ranch hand!" (or something similar---you're trying to say-'if you'd discipline your own darn children, others wouldn't have to!', but making it sound very lighthearted.)
Being a parent, I have come across friends who have children who are poorly behaved. The sad truth is, my boys see that behavior and then copy it if we're around them, so I limit mine and my children's exposure to them. Once you have your own kiddos, I am betting this is something you will have to do with this particular family.
In-laws stink sometimes, I know! Hope things get better for you.
We all smiled at each other realizing we were all on the same side. The Kid's side! When we tell them to slow down, it's not that we don't want them to have fun, we don't want someone getting hurt, or someone's property getting broken. It was refreshing to see other parents and grandparents thinking along the same lines.
Brilliant! I SOOOO agree! Kids WANT structure, discipline and rules, they just don't know they do.
kmoonshine, RN
346 Posts
Sounds like those kids are being emotionally neglected and they're acting out for attention - negative attention is better than nothing, especially if you're starving for some type of social interaction.
I'm sure the soda and candy didn't help the situation either - sugar is energy and filling up a bored child with sugar is sure to equal disaster. The kids were obviously looking for something to do...even if it meant misbehaving, since they apparently do not have any consequences.
However, most of the blame lies in the parents. The child spilled his soda on the new carpet despite being told not to go in the living room? Well, the child should have never been allowed to leave the kitchen with the soda in the first place! The kids don't know any better, and if everyone else was in the living room they obviously wanted to be by them (especially since they are apparently socially deprived).
Its hard to discuss these issues with parents, since most become defensive as it is seen as an attack on their parenting skills. And often when someone does bring up the topic, the parents take it out on the kids ("go to your room", "shut up", "sit in the corner").
If I were you, I'd try to set aside some time to play with the kids at the next holiday gathering. If you can earn their trust, then they'll listen to you. Plus, a nice gift to keep them busy and occupied (such as video games) would be very nice - I'm sure it would keep them quiet for the rest of the night. If you don't want to spend the money on a new system, you could rent a video game system for $20 bucks or so at local video stores (I think that places still rent them...but its been awhile since I've checked prices). Those poor kids have nothing to do with the energy that they have and I'm sure family gatherings provide little stimulation for them - so, they try to find stuff to do on their own (even if their behavior has disasterous consequences). Children don't have enough insight to realize that their behavior right now will have future consequences - which is why their parents should be monitoring their behavior and intervening appropriately.
Kids need boundaries, emotional and intellectual stimulation, and a schedule. I feel badly for these children, since they obviously are acting out because they are missing something in their lives...