Has anybody else been pretty shocked by how polarized many of the forums have gotten lately? 'Back in the good ole' days,' people would occasionally have differing view points and get into little spats, but on the whole we were all on the same page and working toward the same common goal (patient and nurse well-being).
These days it feels like at least 1/3 of the trending forums eventually devolve into tirades and personal attacks. Even when the discussions start out fairly civil, they sour pretty quickly.
I realize that highly-polarized, highly-sensationalized news is the nature of our political system these days. I'm also guessing that the polarization is felt more deeply on AN because the two most prominent, polarizing topics right now (covid and 'black lives' protests) are both interrelated with public health. Usually AN members are at least somewhat united on the aims and goals for public health, even if they don't agree with the means. Now, there's just so much bickering.
It's really disheartening. AN is usually my escape from the outside world, where I can commiserate with other nurses on topics that only we understand. Lately, it feels like the lighthearted, feel-good nature of AN has been poisoned by all of this hatred. I hope we get back to the way things were sooner rather than later. ?
8 hours ago, DQuixote said:.
Police officers choose their profession and they can choose to leave it, they could choose not to support “problematic cops”. The entire protest squad in Buffalo resigned from special duty after 2 officers were suspended for shoving and injuring an elderly protester. The NYPD wore shirts mocking Eric Garner’s last words when he died. When the police stop acting en masse to defend each other and protest accountability then perhaps we can recognize the good apples. Criticizing a profession based on their structural role in upholding oppression is absolutely different than a system of power and prejudice aimed at Black people.
And pointing out white privilege and white supremacy and they way it is inextricably woven in to the history and present of the US is not the same as being racist.
3 hours ago, juniper222 said:Anyone who treats another person badly because of their race is racism.
The difference between prejudice and racism is power. The power differential between the colonizer and the colonized is not equal and not comparable in terms of harm caused. Additionally, racism doesn’t have to mean bad intentions. Actions can be unthinking or even well-intentioned and still be racist.
2 hours ago, NurseBlaq said:Not true. 99% of cops aren't good. There are studies and several examples of racist cops. They have infiltrated all levels of law enforcement and are known as ghost cops, or something like that.
Also, he had a taser but was shot in the back, twice. If he was shot in the back, he was not facing the cop. If you see/know of people who look like you being murdered while being arrested and/or in jail, you would run too. Cops don't have to murder Black people. Dylan Roof murdered a state Congressman, shot up a church, killed 9 people, ran across state lines all while armed, and was arrested and fed Burger King. Only when Black men are murdered are there entire thesis statements explaining why their murder was OK. Same with Tamir Rice. He shouldn't have had a gun, the gun looked real, the cop didn't know, etc etc. There is no excuse that is acceptable. NONE! Yet they persists. SMH
Not to mention the scarily high percentage of police who abuse their intimate partners.
Frankly, if you’re a good apple who stays silent when the supposed very infrequent bad apple is bad apple-ing, that makes you a bad apple too.
And 100% agree with you- white mass murderers are carefully and safely arrested all the time but Black men are murdered for selling cigarettes or writing a bad check... I’d try to run too.
I see my feelings of being intimidated as a 17 yr old girl are irrelevant to my colleagues here.
Yes, I was afraid to complain to the school for fear of being belittled as a racist. They obviously weren't monitoring the restrooms, nor cared to enforce the rules.
When I was 18, I left the city forever. That whole intense scene was definitely not for me...
21 minutes ago, Emergent said:I see my feelings of being intimidated as a 17 yr old girl are irrelevant to my colleagues here.
Yes, I was afraid to complain to the school for fear of being belittled as a racist. They obviously weren't monitoring the restrooms, nor cared to enforce the rules.
When I was 18, I left the city forever. That whole intense scene was definitely not for me...
You’re kinda explaining why here: you could leave and change your environment. Black people can’t stop being Black. That is one of the huge differences between your experience and the experience of being Black in America.
We haven’t talked yet about the weaponizing of white women’s tears against Black people but this is a good mini example of using perceived victimhood to center the conversation on racism back on the feelings of white people. It sucks that you got bullied. Rather than use that experience as a gotcha against a whole body of evidence supporting the very real impacts of racism on Black people, maybe imagine if there was nowhere for you to move that didn’t have that “intense scene.” Imagine if the girls in the bathroom had also been all your teachers, your coworkers, the police, your neighbors, sales clerks in stores, managers, human resources, bankers....etc.
35 minutes ago, Emergent said:I see my feelings of being intimidated as a 17 yr old girl are irrelevant to my colleagues here.
Yes, I was afraid to complain to the school for fear of being belittled as a racist. They obviously weren't monitoring the restrooms, nor cared to enforce the rules.
When I was 18, I left the city forever. That whole intense scene was definitely not for me...
I know that I may be in the minority here, but I do think that what you went through was kind of similar to a micro-agression (though they aren't the same, since there are a bunch of power differentials tied up in the term).
To me, the take-away is that you felt as though you were bullied and discriminated against, and it felt really, really crappy (to the point where you still remember it years, perhaps decades later). It's a really awful feeling, and I can empathize (I promise, I've been there).
It sounds like what our colleagues are saying is that to be black (especially a black woman) in America is to feel like that all of the time, their whole lives, in nearly every social sphere (not just for a few minutes at a time in high school). You had the autonomy to move to escape that feeling, but they can't.
Whether their behaviors were related to race or not, your feelings were valid, and I'm sure it really hurt. Perhaps that experience can give you some insight into the feelings of judgement that POC experience all of the time? (I'm only paraphrasing the other posters have already said, that is so far outside of my realm of personal experience).
I thought @HiddencatBSN put it really well. Her words might be hard hear, to hear, and it's easy to become defensive, but the heart of what she's saying is really important.
7 minutes ago, HiddencatBSN said:You’re kinda explaining why here: you could leave and change your environment. Black people can’t stop being Black. That is one of the huge differences between your experience and the experience of being Black in America.
We haven’t talked yet about the weaponizing of white women’s tears against Black people but this is a good mini example of using perceived victimhood to center the conversation on racism back on the feelings of white people. It sucks that you got bullied. Rather than use that experience as a gotcha against a whole body of evidence supporting the very real impacts of racism on Black people, maybe imagine if there was nowhere for you to move that didn’t have that “intense scene.” Imagine if the girls in the bathroom had also been all your teachers, your coworkers, the police, your neighbors, sales clerks in stores, managers, human resources, bankers....etc.
* Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
versus
* Definition of prejudice
(1): preconceived judgment or opinion
(2): an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge
b: an instance of such judgment or opinion
c: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
Yes, white people experience prejudice, discrimination, harassment. No doubt, it causes harm to the receiver.
White people do not experience racism (or its popular “reverse racism” concept, I believe it’s called). There has always, always been an inherent imbalance of power between those with lighter skin color and POC. The systemic relationship of power, and thus privilege, is the key factor.
Emergent - no one here has suggested that your feelings are “irrelevant.” In fact, people who have posted have been extremely supportive; several don’t agree, and have respectfully told you why. I believe that it is statements such as these that start a thread to derail, as feelings get hurt and egos get bruised, rather than the message received listened to (I mean, you asked?).
7 hours ago, Emergent said:I see my feelings of being intimidated as a 17 yr old girl are irrelevant to my colleagues here.
Yes, I was afraid to complain to the school for fear of being belittled as a racist. They obviously weren't monitoring the restrooms, nor cared to enforce the rules.
When I was 18, I left the city forever. That whole intense scene was definitely not for me...
Not irrelevant, just not the same thing as what BIPOC experience in their lives in this country.
Shove it all in the breakroom, problem solved. When leftist opinions aren't allowed to be front and center in any aspect of life though, outcry ensues. Mind you, I'm saying this as someone who typically votes democrat but I can't help acknowledging the obvious. If you treat "black lives matter" posts as you would every other post and categorize them appropriately, you're racist and not acknowledging a "public health crisis." Politics/biases affect nursing, be it misogyny, homophobia, etc. None are more deserving of attention. Honestly, it's just another way to twist people's arms into broadcasting certain views and certain views only.
21 minutes ago, Serhilda said:Shove it all in the breakroom, problem solved. When leftist opinions aren't allowed to be front and center in any aspect of life though, outcry ensues. Mind you, I'm saying this as someone who typically votes democrat but I can't help acknowledging the obvious. If you treat "black lives matter" posts as you would every other post and categorize them appropriately, you're racist and not acknowledging a "public health crisis." Politics/biases affect nursing, be it misogyny, homophobia, etc. None are more deserving of attention. Honestly, it's just another way to twist people's arms into broadcasting certain views and certain views only.
Yikes.
This kind of post exemplifies microaggressions many black people deal with on a regular basis.
adventure_rn, MSN, NP
1,598 Posts
I'm really sorry to hear that. I can't pretend to understand it, but it really, truly sucks.
As I've said before, I really am glad that it's coming to the forefront now. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this site, myself included, who have seen it without realizing it (or have been complicit in it) for years and had no idea.
I'm really disappointed to hear about your experience, but I'm also kind of surprised, too. There are so many users who I hadn't realized were black until reading these forums. @ThePrincessBride, I've been reading your posts for years (pre-NICU, NICU, post-NICU FNP) and had no idea. Without hearing it from you, I never would have realized it was such a pervasive part of your experience (again, I now realize that has privilege written all over it).
Thank you guys so much for sharing your experiences; I'm sure for a lot of us, it has really opened our eyes. I wish that this stuff could be addressed more openly on forums in real time, but it definitely sounds like when you try to point it out, people get really defensive and claim that you're racist (I can't tell if that's a microaggression or just a straight up gas-lighting aggression?) That really, really sucks.
I don't know if it's possible, but these are the types of forums that I hope we can strive for someday (even if AN was not, in fact, welcoming to everybody 'back in the good 'old days' ?). Different people with different backgrounds and mindsets coming together and learning from one another; hopefully people feel safe to share their experiences. If it had turned into a giant shouting match (like about 30% of the trending covid forums), I personally probably would have tuned out by now, and would have missed out on this great discussion.
Anyway, I really appreciate you sharing your experiences. The way you've articulated your experiences has really grounded it in reality (for me at least). It's so much easier to understand and recognize in context rather than simply hearing buzzwords on tv or at a protest. Hopefully by becoming more cognizant of the problem, we can help work toward a solution (instead of being uninformed, unhelpful bystanders).